Security Crackdown Community Edition

[Grek]

Just throwing it out there: If you intentionally cut off your arm to evade handcuffing, I can and will find a locker to weld you into for the duration of your brig stay.

[aft2001]

Just throwing it out there: If you intentionally cut off your arm to evade handcuffing, I can and will find a locker to weld you into for the duration of your brig stay.

Port-a-brig or shackles work too. Or straightjacket+buckle. Also, cauterize the arm wound so that they can never have their arm back. 

Also with the original thread topic: How do we enforce actual due process and not being a dick to prisoners? I've recently played as Sec and I arrested someone wielding a C-Saber before they could harm anyone. I tried to give some friendly due process, stating crimes, brig time, the fact that I have to search them, and the fact that they'll be let out. After 5 minutes of course. But, the Captain wanted to taser the guy, and another officer said we should execute the guy. Not a big issue, I know, but nicer sec means more cooperation with sec, which means more people playing sec. I think.

EDIT:

first and second portions of the post are hypocritical... Hush hush.

[babayetu83]

no one plays sec because it's the most antifun job in the game and acting like an annoying supercop will do nothing but make people hate sec more and put people off from playing sec

Hey I didn't read anything past the first post (Yeah you can and probably should arrest HoP's who give out all-access randomly). But holy shit you are so wrong, dude, security is the most fun job of the game for me. I dunno what the rest of you are on.

Try to find me another game where the main mechanic isn't a mini-game or a rhythm based combat mechanic, but you, another person, and a robust combat system with text-based communication. Security is the most unique experience you can have playing a videogame. Also the "anti-fun" thing is false in my opinion since this is a game about stealthy assholery and having someone give a shit about you being an asshole gives the entire thing meaning.

Not that this thread is about "fixing security", which could probably be done easily by tweaking the job system to force X amount of players to be security at round start, but about telling people that they can and should arrest HoP's who give everyone all-access and give traitors a really easy way to win, as well as other reasons for arrests. Which I agree with.

oh that's easy

chivalry might whet your appetite

or even For Honor

actually there's no sitting around and waiting 10-15 minutes for things to happen in either of those so i'm not sure you'll like it or not.

[aft2001]

Babayetu...

Security is likely just not for you and that's alright, you don't have to play it. Other people genuinely enjoy it, like I do, so I play it. You not liking it doesn't mean it's a bad job, it just means the job isn't for you.

[The Grim Sleeper]

(paraphrased) I don't enjoy playing Security.

For me, Sec has been always been about 1 thing: to truly be as robust as I can be. No OP powers, no free weapons, no looting every department. And especially no 'Ganking and Shitgiggling'. Imo catching a traitor is the ultimate triumph, much more so then playing a sysi killing defenceless dudes or blowing up the round with Lag.

Back On Topic:

Making sure the HoP isn't giving traitors all-access is an excellent move.

In my own experience, the hardest part of the job is 'obtuse captains':
They have the ID-changing ability and will use it as liberally as any HoP, but are also technically 'your Boss' and will 'overrule your petty idea of common sence'. The have the best gear, but can rarely be bothered to hold up their part of the safety of the station.


Frequently the position is filled by a noob who wanted all-access to 'pursue their dreams of becoming 'The Incredible Hulk', and can be found in genetics not doing their job. Or they just wanted to get armor+energy gun at round-start, and vanish into the debries field, miffed that 'his guards' don't mobilize the whole station to get him out of the Fermid Den. Or he uses that stuff to become 'The Punisher', doing a much better job then the 'clueless shitcurity' at hunting traitorskilling everybody who lingers within his safe space for 'trying to steal his hat'.
And that is assuming he isn't a traitor.

Story time:
Spoiler!

I once played Sec, and the Captain hurt the detective, and ran from the scene. The rest of the Sec team (we counted 4 at out peak) was busy hunting a changeling. I took him down, brigged him for a minute, searched his gear, and released him. His response was to whine for 10 minutes straight, stunning me and dragging me to a bathroom, stripping me down, and demoting me to 'Staff ASSistant'.
I didn't hold a grudge, or admin him; No point in continuing the grudge cycle, and when I recovered my gear (My 'Staff ASSistant'-ID proudly over my body armor ) and was back on the beat, we meet up at the escape sector, had an awkward moment of silence, and stayed vigilant for the Changeling (iirc, he didn't make it onto the shuttle before launch).
Some of the other Sec-lads commented that I was rash, but in the right. I was more miffed that the security ID and gear was in a public place.

I would like hard rules, or boundaries for captains as well. Some with slight penalties, others so 'bad', that a violation of them would be enough for mutiny, no backsies, no return of gear, even if they are confirmed to not be antagonists. 'Just because the games says you are 'a good', doesn't mean you are good enough for the job.'

[aft2001]

Rules for jobs is an excellent idea. More stringent rules and punishments for the more powerful/important jobs. I'll probably talk to an admin on Discord later and ask if its against the rules to arrest and demote a shitty captain or HoP. Shitty HoS' get to talk to the admins of course!

[TheNewTeddy]

be weary of flooding the game with too many rules.

In an ideal world, the rules could fit in a tweet, and the list of "recommendations on how to play" would be 100 pages long.

I think 'guidelines' might be more apt.

[aft2001]

Alright, guidelines. Like, strict-ish ones. If someone constantly violates the guidelines then bam, punishment!

[TheNewTeddy]

What's really important is getting everyone on the same page as to what's allowed and what's not allowed. Once you do that the entire ruleset can say "the rules are what the admins say they are" because all the admins - who are on the same aforementioned page - will enforce the rules the same way all the other admins do.

The best way to achieve this is to keep bringing up 'controversial' issues like who is captain, how an AI should act, and if the game is too spergy; and (and this part is important) coming to some conclusion, at least, among the admin team, as to what is and is not acceptable behavior.

So long as those enforcing the rules are on the same page, you'll find little problem with getting people to follow the rules/guidelines/recommendations/etc

[somepotato]

I'm against role/job specific rules IMO

[The_Rain]

I also think people find antag fun vs crew fun is a tricky balance issue. No, it's no fun being murdered then chucked into space or gibbed because someone decided to go on a murder fiesta. But they are probably having fun during their murder fiesta or whatever.

[Lady Birb]

I also think people find antag fun vs crew fun is a tricky balance issue. No, it's no fun being murdered then chucked into space or gibbed because someone decided to go on a murder fiesta. But they are probably having fun during their murder fiesta or whatever.

For me, as someone who doesn't play security but still likes to fight antagonists for fun, how I treat antags depends on what they are doing. Silent rampagers get no sympathy and are to be handled quickly and without fanfare. Loud rampagers tend to be looking for a fight, so I alert security, grab some gear myself, and engage them in the halls. If someone is going for their objectives, I try to get in their way and be as annoying as possible, running away whenever they try to kill me. Wizards I treat on a case-by-case basis depending on their spells, but if they have cluwne or polymorph I run the hell away. Others I just avoid unless they personally threaten me, in which case I grab a weapon and rush them down.

[BoiledWater]

edit: welp quoting people on a forum using slightly never software than SA is hard. 

content: I too don't like to enforce role rules. If a greyshirt has all access so what? Just ticket him and go bother someone else get murdered by traitorcap.

[Dr Zoidcrab]

Dont be afraid to arrest heads of staff for being criminally bad at their jobs (HoP giving everyone captain IDs, MD shooting people with tranqs etc)

If you can get the captain (or HoS) to deal with them, it's their job to make sure the heads aren't completely awful and can demote if necessary.

Traitor objectives are not the entire point of your existence, just fucking play the game normally and try to enjoy it until roundend.

this. if you get all your shit confiscated and are lucky enough to get out of there alive, then surprise it's just like being a normal crewmember, except you have some more freedom. i dont see the downside unless you are a nerd who cant have fun without a c saber

You cant really expect gimmick traitors to go back to playing normally after you take away their reason to play antag that round. It's like asking a clown to live without his costume.

[Sundance]

^^ Gimmick traitors need a better gimmick if their round is ruined by taking away their toys. There's such a thing as sabotage and subterfuge. A tiny speck of preparation, like breaking the brig BEFORE you get arrested. My favorite gimmick is being an absolute pain in the ass for security, because I know of the techniques that will blindly frustrate them after playing security so long by myself. Tampering with sec records is one. Gerry-riggin corpses so they explode upon investigation is another. Building walls in places that should not being built such as the main entrance. Spacing corpses and then swapping out oxygen for plasma in the sec pods. Depowering security in general (fucks with brig doors). Cutting off your arm to evade being cuffed. Removing the floor under the shrub in sec so it vacuums the place.
Also framing other people. Very easy to do if you know the person you are fucking with is zealous, and constantly pda message security so they know there's a history, security will often view you as an innocent bystander.

For me, my plan B isn't when I get arrested, it's when I get found out. Arresting is only the start, and is often a ticket into security goodbooks if you pull it off that it was an accidental arrest.

I shouldn't be posting this in a crackdown thread, but there you go.