Surgery thread

[Cirrial]

jesus fuck god no why help help

[Vitatroll]

I'm with the GUI if this is to be made more complex. Basically just the targeting method tho. Example:

Left eye removal:
- Open GUI.
- Grab knife and spoon.
- Click on left eye with spoon.
- Click on left eye with knife.
- Click on left eye with spoon.
- Left eye is removed.

If it's between immersion and somebody asking 'HOW DO I DO!?!?!' every time I get cut on, or having my heart removed instead of my butt, I'm gonna side with ease-of-use every time.

I honestly think you nerds can get anal retentive when it comes to making this game easier to play. Not everyone wants to spend 3 hours learning the finer points of stapling a monkeys ass on the clown's head.

[Sundance]

Idea: A combination of a more complex GUI, and something we already have:

A more complex ragdoll option, that only appears when you are near a person that can have surgery (i.e, On a surgery table/roller bed/unconscious on a normal table/drunk enough):


This is what's normally seen.


This is when your target meets the above requirements (on table, etc)
Example includes lungs, heart, intestines, liver, left and right kidneys, left and right eyes.

This means surgery can be as specific as fuck, without overly complex and unintuitive intents nor an in-your-face GUI.

[Mageziya]

Please let that cycle, because attempting to click each on of those sprites would be hell.

[babayetu83]

I'm with the GUI if this is to be made more complex. Basically just the targeting method tho. Example:

Left eye removal:
- Open GUI.
- Grab knife and spoon.
- Click on left eye with spoon.
- Click on left eye with knife.
- Click on left eye with spoon.
- Left eye is removed.

If it's between immersion and somebody asking 'HOW DO I DO!?!?!' every time I get cut on, or having my heart removed instead of my butt, I'm gonna side with ease-of-use every time.

I honestly think you nerds can get anal retentive when it comes to making this game easier to play. Not everyone wants to spend 3 hours learning the finer points of stapling a monkeys ass on the clown's head.

yeah you gotta account for your average pubbie who's never played here/or as doctor before 

who gives a rats ass about immersion, just make it simple enough for the average rando to pick up so you aren't screwed when you don't see a regular in medbay that round

[poland spring]

We need to be able to replace hands with legs and legs with hands so you can only move when laying down

---

I mean arms not hands

[NateTheSquid]

We need to be able to replace hands with legs and legs with hands so you can only move when laying down

---

I mean arms not hands

someone make a new monstrosity that has no legs, and hands in the leg spots, and then the arms cut off at the hand and have a whole leg and foot just stitched to the end

[Maegor]

yeah you gotta account for your average pubbie who's never played here/or as doctor before 

who gives a rats ass about immersion, just make it simple enough for the average rando to pick up so you aren't screwed when you don't see a regular in medbay that round

I guess looking at the wiki to see something that is basically just a sequence of clicks is too hard, and if you have just joined you should not play medical doctor anyway.

[Mordent]

yeah you gotta account for your average pubbie who's never played here/or as doctor before 

who gives a rats ass about immersion, just make it simple enough for the average rando to pick up so you aren't screwed when you don't see a regular in medbay that round

I guess looking at the wiki to see something that is basically just a sequence of clicks is too hard, and if you have just joined you should not play medical doctor anyway.

In all honesty, surgery is generally not overly time-sensitive (a few exceptions, like cutting out a headspider). Being able to follow the wiki instructions (which are mostly trivial to memorise after a few goes) is not hard. Having a GUI will not improve new doctors.

If they don't know "scalpel-saw-scalpel" to remove a limb, then they'll be looking at the wiki. Having a GUI here will not improve this.

Also, re: "who gives a rats ass about immersion", probably most of the LLJK1 players.

I'd be okay with a list popup solely for the whole "digging things that were planted into a patient out" step (namely open hand after they're cut open), as standard surgery wouldn't use it and selecting one thing out of potentially multiple things inside them is not do-able without some sort of extra interface.

[aft2001]

Why not keep the current system but add the surgery targeting that Sundance showed, and be able to store items in people? Also, a timer on operations could be neat. They'd be slow but you click more to speed it up, but the faster you go the more mistakes you can make. Clicking once per step will have minimal bleeding and damage, and with a hemostat it completely prevents bleeding.

Just a little idea to throw out there. Mainly the timer, since it's so simple yet can make surgery more immersive and tense, while still providing that "goon" feel, since you can still just saw off someone's leg in 5 seconds without anesthetic. This likely won't make the headspider surgery harder by much, since you just spam the fuck out of that mouse.

[The Grim Sleeper]

How is a high-detail close-up of the person you are cutting less immersive? From what I understand, it would be a sort of 'Operation'-like minigame (or Dr.Bibber or whatever names it goes by). Challenge comes from, not from shaking, but from gently performing the surgery and factors like GUI-detail (IRL humans bodies aren't made of coloured plastic blocks, they are made of a gooey meaty very bloody mass. Telling one organ from another is a hard-learned skill), 'Number of of incisions required to pierce the skin in the exact location of the organ' (with the added 'fun' of space-men having very random organ placement).

It's worth noting that we can have it both ways: classic surgery for replacing limbs and cutting out brains, GUI surgery for stuff that requires rooting around in the torso. It would not be my first choice to have both; it makes surgery overall even more complex. But it can be done.

Edit: just realized that the suggested GUI is much simpler then that. I have no strong feeling one way or the other.

[Frank_Stein]

I don't understand how you people can say a GUI isn't as fast and would break immersion, and then think having to go read the wiki is an okay solution.

Nothing says expedient like minimizing the game and picking through a chart (sometimes even whole blocks of text) to find what you need, especially when another player's character is bleeding out.

All I'm saying is, whatever system exists should be quick, have the steps be logically apparent, and not burden the player with undue complications or awkwardness.

[Mordent]

Again, as a new player you're going to have to refer to the wiki anyway. Opening up a GUI popup is still going to be a "WTF?" moment.

If you do surgery even occasionally I believe you should be able to remember the steps. How hard is "scalpel-saw" repeated until success for removing something (works for limbs, hearts, butts, heads, and brains - the only variable here is the target and the intent, the former being obvious and the latter being pretty much the only variable), with the exception of eyes?

If your patient is bleeding out before you've started surgery, fixing that is the first priority (and if they don't know that "suture" or "synthflesh" is the way to do that without looking at a wiki then a GUI isn't going to help). For "elective" surgery, you have time to prepare. Part of that preparation should be familiarizing yourself with the process (presumably via the wiki).

If the patient starts bleeding out during surgery, I refuse to believe that a GUI would help here.

If we're adding the option to stuff things into people's chest cavity/head then I don't understand why this has to be more complicated than "drag object to patient who has the relevant body part cut open". Removing an object could simply be applying an open hand to the patient with the relevant body part cut open, causing a list to pop up asking what to remove (or just remove one thing at random as you rummage about trying to find what you're after). Examining the patient while next to them and with them cut open should show a list of what's inside them.

The complication only really comes here if you start adding more organs (e.g. kidneys, liver) or letting you do surgery on lungs.

Surgery has such a low skill ceiling as it is that I personally am totally okay with elective surgeries requiring you to remember more complicated steps.

[Arborinus]

What if each type of surgery had its own tool or set of tools, like how eye surgery was added? Brain and butt surgery would keep scalpel saw but more complicated surgeries would require more delicate tools.


The end product would be a big tray table of intricate and dangerous looking blades, pliers, drills and whatnot with funny use messages for people to experiment with, and maybe some could have the same or interchangeable functions. There would be room for trial and error without completely shutting out pubbies.

[Frank_Stein]

Removing an object could simply be applying an open hand to the patient with the relevant body part cut open, causing a list to pop up asking what to remove (or just remove one thing at random as you rummage about trying to find what you're after). Examining the patient while next to them and with them cut open should show a list of what's inside them.

One thing I don't get is why don't we just use a menu prompt for surgery
Cut a person open and then get a list of whats inside them

gross :S