Improvements to Oshan and Geothermal

[Lefinch]

I already spoke with Scaltra about this before they put it up on the forums, so in short I'm an advocate of the suggestions.

One thing I do want to go over specifically though as the focus has been more on the hotspot mechanics from an engineering perspective in discussion. That's an important discussion, but I do think that retooling the miner/engineer interaction would be helpful without vastly changing the dynamic. Right now, oshan miners have two basic options and a "bad" third option when it comes to oshan hotspots: communicate and cooperate with hotspot augmentation, or avoid hotspot areas for good, and "just level the z-level" for "bad" I'm not going to fall into the trap of anecdotally saying which one I think happens the most and just focus on the idea that it always felt like this is a gameplay opportunity for cooperative play between engineering and mining.

Just having some basic method to allow hotspot mining to be "confirmed" by an engineer for me would help that. Even if you wanted to avoid making the process an automatic bonus for hotspots (because miners just level the z-level and engineers come by and sweep up the benefits) you just make it require you react to hotspot mining at the same time, so that a miner mining a particular area requires the engineer to lock down that hotspot at a similar time to capitalise on the power increases. I don't think that's actually necessary given right now engineers can already just sweep up the benefits, but I'll offer up what I can for an idea I'd want to see implemented.

The last part of my post is entirely anecdotal and supposition, so feel free to ignore it but: I feel like people like Oshan, I feel like there are engineers who love oshan. I think there would be a lot more people who might be interested in engineering on Oshan if there wasn't a negative feedback loop of: People complain about damage (however much the game tries to avoid hotspot damage, it happens though I agree frankly it tends to to be minor, though there's occasional unfortunate/funny accidents) which puts people off giving the role a go, which leads to a death of engineers, which puts pressure on the engineers left, which discourages them from playing engineer on oshan so on so on. But I accept fully that's just my opinion which I only offer here because others have done the same to support their discussion so far. If this is a thing that's happening, I'd enjoy a simple solution to break that cycle.

[Scaltra]

The last part of my post is entirely anecdotal and supposition, so feel free to ignore it but: I feel like people like Oshan, I feel like there are engineers who love oshan. I think there would be a lot more people who might be interested in engineering on Oshan if there wasn't a negative feedback loop of: People complain about damage (however much the game tries to avoid hotspot damage, it happens though I agree frankly it tends to to be minor, though there's occasional unfortunate/funny accidents) which puts people off giving the role a go, which leads to a death of engineers, which puts pressure on the engineers left, which discourages them from playing engineer on oshan so on so on. But I accept fully that's just my opinion which I only offer here because others have done the same to support their discussion so far. If this is a thing that's happening, I'd enjoy a simple solution to break that cycle.

Yeah, I think in hindsight I got a bit defensive about how much of a problem hotspots are, I love Oshan but recently I have had some of my worst shifts on Oshan that resulted from REALLY bad hotspots that were mined up well, like three rounds in a row They were just these massive problems, one of which I pinned in security after it blew open all of the security only for another one to fly in after pinning that one that had one officer grumping at me for pinning a hotspot in there, to begin with. 

If mining is active and isn't avoiding mining up hotspots all that much but also not going ham I feel like you still get a breach or three throughout a shift that varies in intensity. This isn't that bad but I know one aspect that also turns off engineers from Oshan that I have seen is just the constant repairs and stopping them from doing things they would prefer to do. Although honestly doing repairs can be fun but I think people just expect not to do that so it feels bad.

[Decarcassor]

The real issue with Oshan is leaks. Seems obvious but allow me to elaborate.

Due to how leaks work regarding doors and how the map is built a single one tile breach can flood the entire station faster than the many drains all over the map can flush it, and thats just a bit silly.

Now I don't want to see Oshan turn into Nadir with its overabundance of redundant anti flooding force fields, but I feel maybe the map could use a few off thoses at key locations to maybe prevent water from getting EVERYWHERE every single time the station suffer any kind of damage no matter the proportions.

Alternatively, we could remove the carousel power unit that noboby really cares about (who even use the conveyor belt ring of Oshan ? Its so inconveniently placed) and replace with a Pump Power Unit™ that increase the efficiency of drains all accross the station or something.

[Kotlol]

I can safely say this:
Floods in Oshans and Hotspots getting into the station are nothing but.. ANNOYING.

They don't disrupt anything large. Unlike a breach on Nadir wich is a pain to fix and any space station with depressurisation.
In oshan it just becomes: "we're flooded again..." And it takes a while for it to become an actual problem.

THAT SAID.

Zamu said that 1 hotspot is enough to power the station. Okay... that's not the problem.
Setting up the singularity engine is also just turning it on correctly.

The problem with these engines is they are unfufilling. The reason people like the Nuclear Generator and TEG is because you have to manage it and check it to get a great output.
With geothermal and singularity you just set it up and you are done. Can't improve much of it. And that becomes boring.
While engineers are mechanics and fixer upers as well. Since we consildated them to it again....
If you want to work on these engines all shift... you can't. Once setup.. you can't do much anymore. And in oshan it ends up with you roaming around pinning and moving hotspots...and sometimes patching a hole then letting the janitor take care of the rest.

There is a reason Oshan Engineers build a bar or a room next to escape most shifts. Mostly since due to oshan's mechanics it's safer and easier to do.

This is why people want to manage the hotspots better to stay away from the station and want to do more with the engine.

Also why don't we allow a saline generator or something like using the pressure of the oshan as well like a hydro-generator? Something sci-fi like that too on the side.
Having to use the water of the Ocean or the salt to generate power for the station? That way Oshan has 2 two generators.

[Fuppy]

With geothermal and singularity you just set it up and you are done. Can't improve much of it. And that becomes boring.

I disagree with the singularity-geothermal comparison. Geothermal is much more involved than the singulo for initial setup, and you have some options on the table to increase output. Like stacking or clearing out the vent below. It can be fun to work on provided the station isn't being flooded by rogue hotspots and you're the only available engineer to go and stomp them.

[mbc]

some ideas, not mutually inclusive :
- hotspots under the station could be changed so mining does not boost them
- hotspots drifting naturally could “bounce off” station tiles and reverse direction unless intentionally pushed that direction by a stomper. (maybe still allow them to drift in a bit to do some damage on the sides sometimes)
- engineers could be given some sort of tool to un boost a hotspot. probably would have to be a slower over time style effect so you can’t mess up an engineer’s hard work too easily
- add the ability to deploy a vent capture unit on station tiles (i forget if this is already possible or not)

[ZodiaDecius]

Idea to help with Pre-Hotspot power generation.

Add in a modified hamster wheel generator but use water from the ocean, make it a simple setup like Changing out a TEG Semi, and boom, stable power for a little bit while the ocean bound engineers set up the big boy engine.

[Kotlol]

Idea to help with Pre-Hotspot power generation.

Add in a modified hamster wheel generator but use water from the ocean, make it a simple setup like Changing out a TEG Semi, and boom, stable power for a little bit while the ocean bound engineers set up the big boy engine.

I actually would love to see more hamster wheel generators in general then just the gimmick of it being ordered. Aka some station will have it there like Oshan.
Just in case a newbie has to learn how to find and secure hotspots and then science drains the whole battery within 10 mins due to telesci.

Having the hamster wheel there and telling the clown to run in it and for each MW of power he generates he makes a credit would be funny.

Heck imagine dumb antag gimmicks revolving around changing power into credits.

[Decarcassor]

Oshan doesn't really need pre-hotspot power generation. The default reserve power of Oshan can sustain the station for most of a shift with the exception of power hungry department like QM or telesci. And its trivialy easy to use one the many local generators that cargo can order. If you don't want to deal with geothermal power, just ask the quartermasters for the hamsters wheels your heart desire.

Its less a problem with the map's design itself and more of a problem with players not wanting or knowing how to deal with it.

[Scaltra]

some ideas, not mutually inclusive :
- hotspots under the station could be changed so mining does not boost them
- hotspots drifting naturally could “bounce off” station tiles and reverse direction unless intentionally pushed that direction by a stomper. (maybe still allow them to drift in a bit to do some damage on the sides sometimes)
- engineers could be given some sort of tool to un boost a hotspot. probably would have to be a slower over time style effect so you can’t mess up an engineer’s hard work too easily
- add the ability to deploy a vent capture unit on station tiles (i forget if this is already possible or not)

I love the idea of them bouncing off the station unless they were intentionally stompered toward it. This combined with the whole carousel system could make for a very fun and interesting new mechanic it could be renamed to "station system power booster" or something along those lines and it could boost that whole bounce off the station mechanic where at shift start with no boost it can only bounce off unpowered hotspots maybe? Then it could reflect increasingly higher intensity hotspots given more power. I both want people to use the current Carousel thing that exists and it to be better so my immediate thought is to combine the two anyway.