An experiment.

[Technature]

Removing security, even if temporarily, won't change a damn thing.

I know this cause security is rarely filled anyways.

The only change we'd see is "What if it was guaranteed this job would never be filled" which is a shit idea.

[amaranthineApocalypse]

Y'all (with one exception) are missing the point of the thread.

... I'd like to suggest an experiment. ...

... couple of weeks...

The idea being discussed here is "what if we did this for a couple of weeks for <insert reasons>", not "let's remove security" or "how can we make people want to play sec?".

Personally, I'd be totally okay with this as an experiment, as well as various other short-term experiments to see how the community reacts to (in some cases) a fairly radically different game.

That's fair. If you wanna tweak around with how long of a leash you give to Sec when it comes to force and presence, I'm fine with that.

I just think this is all player issues rather than mechanical issues with the role in its current state

So do i, that's why i want to see how the community reacts when there's no security to fob things off on to. To determine the nature of the player issues. Speculation is all well and good, but there's three different ideas in this thread alone about what the issue actually is. This should either confirm or deny one of the major ones, which is that players just don't care at all when antags start to go on a rampage.

[atomic1fire]

I think security does serve a role, but nobody wants to do it because you have to be really careful with it. Removing sec just seems like an excuse to make everyone into their own vigilante, which is fun but also much more frustrating if you have no one to help you out.

I think one sec experiment that might be interesting would be to give security miscreant style objectives.


"Hire/bribe crewmen to serve as your department snitches"

"Patrol Medbay for would be opiate addicts"

"Give bartender a much needed break from his duties as a bouncer"

"Leave the round wearing at least one robotic limb"

[Cyfarfod]

My two cents:

I am WAY more likely, if I make a mistake as an antagonist vs. a vigilante (as opposed to sec staff), to have my round be OVER OVER OVER.

It's a fairly long shot, but maybe, MAYBE there's a chance that a small absence would make people appreciate security more, for that reason alone. If you take my traitor gear but leave me alive, maybe I can cook something else up, at least!

OTOH as mentioned frequently, there is more often no sec than there is sec, and people still tend to have a bad attitude. I personally feel like the sec character I use gets treated acceptably, but I think it's a combination of not having been driven to frustration-based actions thus far, and also not really being that robust anyhow so why bother?

[babayetu83]

there's already no security in the first place so i believe this premise is flawed


real talk i think the final solution to the security question is to change people's attitude towards security and how they operate.

first: if people fuck with security, they should be expected to get dragged off and beaten by fellow security officers but not outright killed instead of going "if you so much as do 1 tick of damage to me going to adminhelp you :^)"

[OMJ]

goon began to die when everyone decided fuck sec at the same time. biggest shift in the last few years was the collective sec is boring and rigid to play belief. i haven't been arrested in game in around two years.

ss13 is one weird game.

[Vitatroll]

I'm with the "it won't change anything because that's how it is now" people. The few people who like hunting antags will do just that, and they'll generally be more efficient and less fussed at than sec.

Now, if you were to make sec roles auto-filled for a week... There's lots of ways that experiment could go down. It'd just be interesting to see how people deal with it. I always hear about more suicides, but I have a feeling it'd just bring more keystone kop action. Okay and yeah also a few more suicides and braindeads, but it's not like you can't just ditch your job and become a space hobo.

Everyone loves space hobos.

[Technature]

I mean, if people REALLY don't want to play security they can just bug the HoP, HoS, or captain to change their job and access.

You're basically a standard citizen with the bonus that no one can possibly suspect you of being a traitor or spy.

But yeah, if we want to experiment we should change things from the norm, not enforce them into it.

[Frank_Stein]

Now, if you were to make sec roles auto-filled for a week... There's lots of ways that experiment could go down. 

I've suggested something like this before, where the role is Auto filled based on server population. Basically, 1 sec officer for every 5 to 10 people. Lower than that and the Captain is inelliinel for antagonistic roles

[Ed Venture]

Yeah a real experiment would be making security take priority over other jobs for a time. I know the admins have talked about this idea alot but never did anything with it. It's time to try it out.

[amaranthineApocalypse]

there's already no security in the first place so i believe this premise is flawed

I'm seeing a lot of people shouting this over and over again in this thread. You're missing the point.

I know. I know that people very rarely play security. I know that everybody in this thread knows that and that most of us don't expect security to bail our asses out. I hear it all the time in the forums and on the discord.

I also know that we aren't the entire playerbase. In fact, we make up quite a small portion of it. There's precisely one person who has posted in this thread so far who has less than two hundred posts on the forum and that's firebarrage who just doesn't post that often since they apparently joined in 2013. Literally everybody in this thread is either an admin, a mentor, or a long time player.

I want to know what the rest of the playerbase would do, since it's not necessarily what we would do. We can't really just put a post on the forums and ask them because most of them aren't here. That's the point of the experiment. If you turn out to be right then so be it. But i'd like to know for sure.

If we run the experiment, we'll have something we can actually point to as an example instead of relying on assumptions about the opinions of people who can't actually correct us if we're wrong

[Ed Venture]

The playerbase would do what they always do cause there is no one playing security already. I think you are missing the point. Your experiment has been going on for about two years now. I don't see the point in doing what's already been done for results that we've already seen. They'd just play like normal and then when security comes back they will just fuck with them again to the point where no one plays it again and that's assuming taking the role out for a bit would bring people back once it is reintroduced. Only way I'd be okay with this idea is if Security gets some sort of rework while it's removed and with the added insurance that admins will crackdown on the people who fuck with security players again and again.

---

And trying to take down people's arguments cause they've been here for a long time or because of their status is dumb. If you wanted to get the full picture of what the community wants you'd ask in OOC a bunch of times while talking in here. I mean I joined the forums in 2013 but have almost 2,000 post. Should I be ignored because of that? I don't think so. This place is filled with people passionate about the game where the people who can change things can watch,listen and change things based on all our ideas. I would not want things any other way.

With Experience comes Wisdom.

[warcrimes]

people would probably fuck with sec less if it wasn't the #1 most fun thing to do.
there's got to be a proper way to disincentivise it, but when you put delicious spaghetti and vodka behind a glass table and 2 windows, it's much too tempting.

I'm +1 on Ed's plan to force sec roles to be filled at a certain % of pop. give greyshirts something to worry about.

[OMJ]

loosen restrictions on sec imo, it was fun before when people did whatever they want knowing not to go insanely overboard. idk. playerbase has evolved

[Gannets]

force sec roles to be filled at a certain % of pop.

I would really like that. Lord knows if it would be of any benefit, it just gut feels like the right course.