Remove or significantly change riot launcher and flashbangs.

[Froggit_Dogget]

Maybe rework flashbangs to be less about stun and more about causing a completely white screen and severe misstep? Blindness would be cancelled out by sunglasses and misstep would only be cancelled out by both. This makes it more of something you toss in before a fight to allow you to have a better time, instead of something you use to fight.

The white screen is kind of awful; thats how flashes work on bee and tbh its rlly bad.

Also my point wasnt that tasers are useless; just that they suck at their job of being a ranged stunner. The only semi consistant one is the flashbang riotlauncher, but even that isnt foolproof.

[KikiMofo]

Flash bangs are the only way sec can really fight against a crowd of revs though

[RGBDeadSilent]

Alright, i'll put in some HoS opinions on this whole issue.

Riot Launcher is pretty good where it sits right now, post nerf to how fast you can load things into it its a one shot secondary weapon. Given how you can purchase ammo for it from security utilities its a good backup weapon. Riot Launcher usually takes smoke grenades, flashbangs, stingers and an industrious scientists syndicate grenades (There are more, but when do you even see it?). Gone are the days of the nitro grenade. All of these grenades carry with them some stamina damage on hit by any grenade themselves, a good bit of brute (About 40?) and an embedded chance which can cause its own stun. You've been shot by something that is essentially a 40mm grenade, its going to hurt.

The big issue folks seem to have is flashbangs in the launcher, and honestly I don't even use the launcher anymore, just flashbangs. First Flashbangs are ridiculous because if you even want to use it as security, you literally have to throw it and then GET OFF SCREEN. Otherwise you'll disorient yourself for four seconds. If you're within about 5 tiles of the grenade, you'll take stamina damage. Dead center? You'll get an asswhooping amount of stamina damage because of the flashbang. This is where the riot launcher comes in king in a single target scenario. If you can shoot them and hit them, you instantly down them.... if they aren't wearing earmuffs and sunglasses. So what to do....

First, Flashbangs are not armory equipment. When you need them, a flashbang is a life saver. Revs rushing you when you're alone and you need to get to backup? Throw a flashbang and run off screen as fast as you can. Hope you don't get the disorient effect and they do, and you might be able to limp away. Nuke Ops defending the bomb? Blind their Marksmen forever because he wore thermals by throwing in all your flashbangs. You'll have given the crew some time because you've either downed or disabled the majority of the nukies in the room. Flashbangs are useful and god damn essential for security when they don't get hit by the flashbang themselves, but a death sentence when they do get hit.

Katzen has a good idea via grenade conversion, and it does sound nice since it adds extra time to the wielder to PREPARE, but it doesn't stop the reason this thread is up, being one tapped and knockdown by a grenade. Sadly the flashbang isn't even the only grenade to one tap knockdown because you got hit by it. Having a stinger grenade detonate on top of you causes you to be hit by every rubber bullet it has, and then you've got a ton of brute and a coma. I did this for a few shifts, and I put one wizard instantly into deep crit with it, didn't really use it after that.

Changes
-Holding a grenade in hand as it goes off causes brute damage with a chance to delimb you. You're holding a grenade in your hand, flashbangs are concussive and could still rip off your fingers. Stop folks from putting on earmuffs and priming two flashbangs and walking into a crowd.
-Flashbangs effect you on bullseye, regardless of earmuffs and sunglasses. Its a concussive grenade, it jiggles the brain and drop you anyways.
-Reduce the area of effect of flashbangs. Currently if you can see the damn thing, you're going to get hit by it. Reduce its range to 3-4 tiles from center, that way security doesn't flashbang themselves. To add to this, if the range is reduced, increase the effect of area damage slightly. Don't increase its max, just the area damage. Say bullseyes stay the same, 1 tile aoe is still a bullseye shot and then taper off from there. Make the thing actually usable instead of an emergency use when revs are tearing ass down the halls after you with bats.
-Either make converting grenades a possibility, or put two packs of 40mm Stinger and 40mm Flashbangs in the armory vendor, maybe four rounds each pack.
-Make it an actual 40mm grenade and give it a priming distance, so you can't point blank with it. Unless of course we bring back the 40mm Baton rounds which got swiftly replaced with paint rounds.

[Drewmajor11]

oh yeah also flashbang spam has a bug where it still thinks your holding one after you dropped it. just a side note

[RGBDeadSilent]

oh yeah also flashbang spam has a bug where it still thinks your holding one after you dropped it. just a side note

Only does this if you hold the grenade in hand, you can then bash stuff with it and it'll say you hit them with the grenade. Pressing Q "Drops" it, but it doesn't actually exist anymore.

[Frank_Stein]

-Make it an actual 40mm grenade and give it a priming distance, so you can't point blank with it. 

Hit someone, have the grenade push them away into the priming distance

[Katzen]

oh yeah also flashbang spam has a bug where it still thinks your holding one after you dropped it. just a side note

Yeah I looked into this for grenades in general:
invisibility = 100 //Why am i doing this?
if (src.master) src.master.invisibility = 100
SPAWN_DBG(5 SECONDS) //To make sure all reagents can work
if (src.master) qdel(src.master)
if (src) qdel(src) //correctly before deleting the grenade.

We could probably make you drop it to avoid any confusion about your hand.

[KikiMofo]

-Make it an actual 40mm grenade and give it a priming distance, so you can't point blank with it. 

Hit someone, have the grenade push them away into the priming distance

Thats kinda how I want the syndie RPGs to work. Shoot someone point blank with it and it sends them flying off screen with a nice light trail and then BOOM

[coolvape]

i haven't been on in a bit, can secasses still easily grab a box of flashbangs and a riot launcher and suddenly have a weapon that they probably shouldn't have?

[Deathslayer448]

kinda, but I have yet to see a round where that actually happens, most of the regulars who play sec have enough game knowledge to not usually need to use it(most)(I only really play goon 1 so this is a limited view)

[Lady Birb]

i haven't been on in a bit, can secasses still easily grab a box of flashbangs and a riot launcher and suddenly have a weapon that they probably shouldn't have?

I semi-frequently see rounds where a secass immediately grabs the riot launcher and starts running around shooting random civilians. Even if we don't make it armory gear it should definitely be in a cardlocked crate.

[TDHooligan]

This is something I could get behind if it were applied to *all* converted grenades. You gain impact fuse but lose payload (and it also makes more sense, 40mm grenades traditionally do not have the same payload size as hand grenades). Additionally, keeping with the theme of more "sense", converted 40mm grenades could have a minimum arming distance that make them not detonate if they're within a few tiles of launch.

the problem is that this payload size is hard to balance for different nade types. several grenades are so good in the GL solely because they're insane at point blank. giving nades a short timer after impact won't nerf gas grenades as hard as it nerfs flashbangs and stingers, as it's unlikely a victim will stay at point blank.

moving things behind difficulty to get is annoying because as it stands, non-GL flashbangs are a really useful tool as sec. to have them made rare because of exploiters will only help codify that using them less optimally is a waste.