Remove or significantly change riot launcher and flashbangs.

[Jakson]

I’m gonna have to agree with Techna, I’m tired of seeing all these nerf threads for scenarios that rarely happen. I’ve got 750 hours and I don’t think ANYBODY has used the riot launcher flashbang on me. The mechanic is perfectly fine.

This is something we keep doing, nerfing things based on a specific once-in-a-lifetime scenarios that happened once or twice.

Dont you play on rp? I see that shit basically daily when i play classic. Hell ill admit I tend to use it as sec ass on classic cause its just that good. I honestly become the strongest sec member with that thing.

No? I’ve played primarily goon1 for several months now. Sometimes I might see some more experienced security officers grab the riot launcher, but I’ve never been shot by it, at all, and I piss off security pretty often.

I’m pretty sure this situation is grossly exaggerated.

[Cal]

I’m gonna have to agree with Techna, I’m tired of seeing all these nerf threads for scenarios that rarely happen. I’ve got 750 hours and I don’t think ANYBODY has used the riot launcher flashbang on me. The mechanic is perfectly fine.

So it's okay when YOU do it to others, because it's never happened to you?

[Jakson]

I’m gonna have to agree with Techna, I’m tired of seeing all these nerf threads for scenarios that rarely happen. I’ve got 750 hours and I don’t think ANYBODY has used the riot launcher flashbang on me. The mechanic is perfectly fine.

So it's okay when YOU do it to others, because it's never happened to you?

“its the budget taser”
You misunderstood what I’m saying here, I’m saying I’m surprised how you can get a shittier version of a taser just by hacking into security. Of course, it’s far better to just use a standard taser instead, or if you really can’t aim, the taser SMG. The idea is that you can get follow up shots with the SMG if you miss because you partially hit them. The difference being you have to reload the launcher.

---

Also, when did I ever mention it’s bad to use the riot launcher or not allowed?

[TDHooligan]

“its the budget taser”
You misunderstood what I’m saying here, I’m saying I’m surprised how you can get a shittier version of a taser just by hacking into security. Of course, it’s far better to just use a standard taser instead, or if you really can’t aim, the taser SMG. The idea is that you can get follow up shots with the SMG if you miss because you partially hit them. The difference being you have to reload the launcher.

you do realise every taser was changed in the past to not down in one shot (besides maybe the shotgun? i dont remember if that got changed) and flashbangs still cause the effects of a taser hit from a room's length away if you're not wearing glasses

it is an upgrade in every sense of the matter besides inventory space, and the fact you bragged about being able to click a detective to immediately down him is doubling down on its' strength. i dont think you're arguing in good faith here, especially since your only arguments about it not being too strong is that a: you think nerfs are bad and b: people aren't abusing it against you yet.

[Ikea]

“I just clicked on the detective and he fell. Plop.”

[Jakson]

If you have the taser and land one shot on someone, it’s pretty easy to land a follow-up shot on a slowed enemy. I see the riot launcher has perfect for someone who isn’t sec to use it to antagonize with. Otherwise, I think I’ll stick with my taser. Your twisting my words in discord to make it seem like I think it’s better than the taser, it’s not, reloading is the main flaw that makes the taser better.

[unfunnyperson]

If you have the taser and land one shot on someone, it’s pretty easy to land a follow-up shot on a slowed enemy. I see the riot launcher has perfect for someone who isn’t sec to use it to antagonize with. Otherwise, I think I’ll stick with my taser. Your twisting my words in discord to make it seem like I think it’s better than the taser, it’s not, reloading is the main flaw that makes the taser better.

Riot launcher and flashbangs are much better than a taser. Like yes I could use a taser and get a few hits in to stun for a few seconds or I could grab the riot launcher and instantly stun for 10 seconds. And reloading is hardly a problem considering you can just carry around a box of flashbangs and retreat if I need to reload considering the timer isn’t that long.

[Jakson]

If you have the taser and land one shot on someone, it’s pretty easy to land a follow-up shot on a slowed enemy. I see the riot launcher has perfect for someone who isn’t sec to use it to antagonize with. Otherwise, I think I’ll stick with my taser. Your twisting my words in discord to make it seem like I think it’s better than the taser, it’s not, reloading is the main flaw that makes the taser better.

Riot launcher and flashbangs are much better than a taser. Like yes I could use a taser and get a few hits in to stun for a few seconds or I could grab the riot launcher and instantly stun for 10 seconds. And reloading is hardly a problem considering you can just carry around a box of flashbangs and retreat if I need to reload considering the timer isn’t that long.

Taser allows close quarters combat, riot launcher flash bangs will hurt yourself too if you get too close. You don’t get the opportunity to run up and fire point blank shots like the taser.

Taser superiority

[DimWhat]

I used this thing back when I played security a lot. It's hilariously powerful. Sec doesn't need a super stun weapon when they already have both a baton and a ranged stunner.

[unfunnyperson]

If you have the taser and land one shot on someone, it’s pretty easy to land a follow-up shot on a slowed enemy. I see the riot launcher has perfect for someone who isn’t sec to use it to antagonize with. Otherwise, I think I’ll stick with my taser. Your twisting my words in discord to make it seem like I think it’s better than the taser, it’s not, reloading is the main flaw that makes the taser better.

Riot launcher and flashbangs are much better than a taser. Like yes I could use a taser and get a few hits in to stun for a few seconds or I could grab the riot launcher and instantly stun for 10 seconds. And reloading is hardly a problem considering you can just carry around a box of flashbangs and retreat if I need to reload considering the timer isn’t that long.

Taser allows close quarters combat, riot launcher flash bangs will hurt yourself too if you get too close. You don’t get the opportunity to run up and fire point blank shots like the taser.

Taser superiority

Equip some earmuffs and point blank all you want. They aren’t hard to come by.

[virvatuli]

a lot of weird takes in this thread, the only real thing that would need to be done would be making flashbangs more difficult to obtain. The 40mm's function is fine and has been fine forever, but flashbangs are the things that cause the most contention over the past couple of years, from dual-wield grenade cop to secoffs spamming them for no reason, having a box of flashbangs just sitting in Sec has always seemed like a weird freebie to me (considering their actual power).

Additionally, if you guys can't keep conversation civil I'm just going to close the thread and hand out forum bans. There's no reason to A) call out each other, and B) drag a legitimate thread through the muck. If someone makes a suggestion thread for something, keep it on-topic.

[Katzen]

Flashbangs by themselves by the fact that the grenade has time itself to explode and a prime noise allowing counter play by running away/ quickly putting on earmuffs. Riot launcher destroys the balance of flashbangs by removing what allows it to be countered turning it into a “I win” button with no counterplay other than having earmuffs on 24/7 which ruins the social aspect of ss13.

One solution could be simply reducing the power of flashbangs when fired from a riot launcher to do a fraction of the stun. This would still keep riot launcher flash bangs as a powerful too for dealing with groups but make it less powerful when in a direct fight.

Agree.

The launcher removes the significant downsides to timing/throwing flashbangs and makes it very easy. Flashbangs from the launcher are VERY effective, direct hit puts you down for 10 seconds. One tile away, something like 190 stamina and 3 seconds. Being two tiles away drains 160~ stamina and makes you dizzy for 10 seconds. Sunglasses help a lot but still make you a very easy target with the dizzy.
The one second reload is trivial downside compared to the fact they pretty easily let you two shot most people. Some people even dual wield them.

I considered a few options,

• Riot Launcher only takes 40mm shells, put a Tactical Launcher in armory that accepts grenades
  
• Riot Launcher only takes 40mm shells, put a 40mm conversion kit in the armory
  
• Prevent flashbangs from the Riot Launcher
  
• Half effectiveness of flashbangs fired by the launcher
  
• Put a timer on flashbangs fired from launcher
  

[virvatuli]

• Half effectiveness of flashbangs fired by the launcher
  

This is something I could get behind if it were applied to *all* converted grenades. You gain impact fuse but lose payload (and it also makes more sense, 40mm grenades traditionally do not have the same payload size as hand grenades). Additionally, keeping with the theme of more "sense", converted 40mm grenades could have a minimum arming distance that make them not detonate if they're within a few tiles of launch.

[Froggit_Dogget]

I will say, its funny how now that their logical counter got nerfed, https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid...light=Deaf
, this has popped up. But regardless,

Sec is by no means strong. Sure, they have tasers, but, they suck. If you try to use them at range against anyone with skill, they will lay down and dodge the taser. 
Second of all, the flashbang riot launcher is not an instant win. It only drops you if you are already low on stamina. They can’t load in a second so it wont matter after they shoot one. Also, the flashbang will effect the secoff too. Even while your both disoriented, you can dodge any taser shots and shove the secoff away from your tile before they can click ya.

Sure, flashbangs can be strong in certain situations. And yea, theyre easier to get then tasers, and I wouldn’t be opposed to removing the box of them, but they arent an instant win against anyone good. I have only been got by a flashbang riotlauncher 2-3 times, out of many attempts. Just dodge.

[Ikea]

Maybe rework flashbangs to be less about stun and more about causing a completely white screen and severe misstep? Blindness would be cancelled out by sunglasses and misstep would only be cancelled out by both. This makes it more of something you toss in before a fight to allow you to have a better time, instead of something you use to fight.

---

Sec is by no means strong. Sure, they have tasers, but, they suck. If you try to use them at range against anyone with skill, they will lay down and dodge the taser.

Sec literally gets batons. Also harm intent for guns is very good, tasers included, lying down gives the sec off a chance to catch up and tase you.