Antag Tokens for playing Sec

[The Grim Sleeper]

I'd definitely agree that the proper solution to security is to make them more fun to play rather than handing out rewards, though.

I agree with this, but had never considered it. +1

Does make me wonder why we can't buy antag tokens with space bucks.

No. I do not want 20 braindeads on the arrivals shuttle 'farming spacebucks'.

I think the largest misconception is that sec's primary target is antags.

I agree with this, but had never considered it. Security aren't just 'superheros!'. They are firstmost the mall-cops that give roudy teenagers the stink-eye. And occasionally help an old lady in the bathroom. +1

I think this is one of those annoying "be the change you want to see" things that never really do anything sadly.

I concur, I was "the change I want to see" for a while and all I got was either shit "for being a tryhard nerd" or at best a faux-sympathetic "Wow, you must really hate rounds that feature any antagonist whatsoever, lol". I actually stopped playing for 3 months after that, and now have switched 'Security Guard' to 'Not wanted' in the job selection.
The 'mall-cops'-idea is giving me pause to reconsider that choice, but without some sort of other incentive, fun-wise or otherwise, I can't be bothered. Not while there are zones to explore and loafers to build.

[Wisecrack34]

I like the sec cloning pod idea, it adds another element to traitoring that can be eliminated if they plan/try hard enough.

+1

[Ed Venture]

I think this is one of those annoying "be the change you want to see" things that never really do anything sadly.

I concur, I was "the change I want to see" for a while and all I got was either shit "for being a tryhard nerd" or at best a faux-sympathetic "Wow, you must really hate rounds that feature any antagonist whatsoever, lol". I actually stopped playing for 3 months after that, and now have switched 'Security Guard' to 'Not wanted' in the job selection.

This is why I stopped playing Security and have not had the urge to play the role since July.

[Xeram]

Literally any time I play sec the station seems to conspire to be as shit as possible and make me end up spending 90% of a 50 minute round in security because they keep trying to break in/trying to murder officers/free people who are arrested.

Whenever I play sec, the crew would rather die trying to let anyone arrested get free even if the person had murdered everyone in medbay. It was not uncommon for every antagonist arrested to find 2 idiots standing outside sec after following the officer the whole way trying to get away with the prisoner, and a third with an all access ID to open the door and them all to barge in and start fighting sec.

Alternatively, I play as literally anything else on the station and can still roam around and help deal with antagonists better than I could as security because the entire crew isn't doing their best to fuck up everything.

The issue isn't that security isn't fun to play mechanically or in concept. The crew vs antagonists interactions are the primary conflict of any given round barring admin shenanigans or players starting up another. Pretty much every other mechanic revolves around the main conflict in some way. Cloning and Robotics are near useless barring accidents without it. Toxins and bomb making is barring 2ish specific situations pointless without antagonists. etc.

No, the issue is community/player mentality/culture. At some point everyone seemed to start viewing it as Crew vs Security vs Antagonists rather than accepting security is just trying to keep them alive/things secure. Sec isn't a fuckin horrible experience because its mechanically boring. It's fucking horrible because the average security round consists of substantially more grief and shittiness direct at security for the crime of daring to play security. It's comparable to how it used to be to play AI, except somewhere along the line we all learned/decided "lets not be shit to the AI constantly, it's a person too.". Somehow, we can't seem to grasp it for Security Officers.

I don't know how to fix it. I don't know if you can even take active steps TO fix it. I don't even know how we got past being poo to the AI. It's a hard problem to fix. It's a big problem to fix. I'm not sure if it can be fixed. But I don't think any amount of additions or removals from security as a job/department will solve it.

[Cyfarfod]

Everything the previous two posts said, although I think to a certain extent the more competent a player you are, along with are KNOWN to be, the more likely people are to be a complete turd to you when you are sec. Since I'm not at that level, I don't get quite as much toxic shit thrown my way.

I would theorize there's a certain subconscious attitude that, I'm gonna use you as an example Xeram, if Pritchard is a staff assistant and decides to fight the antags, you should stay out of his way cuz if you mess with him he will fuck you right up. On the other hand, if Pritchard is a sec officer, it's OK to fuck with him because what's he going to do? Arrest you? And then you can just bitch about it and a gaggle of people will come to help, cuz shitsec etc. bullshit.

This is why I SPECIFICALLY use a different character to play sec, partly because I am trying to embrace a more positive attitude when I do that job, but also so that any baggage, and I don't mean metagaming or griefing but just... "Oh, it's that guy" is left behind when I play sec.

Neither of you two need me validating your opinions, I doubt, but fuck if I am not doing it anyhow.

[Grifflez]

Ehh, I'd rather antag tokens stay a prize for doing something awesome or losing an antag round due to admin fuckery/a server crash.

[Technature]

You start giving more ways to get antag tokens, you start making them worth less. Less special.

Going through a round and doing something awesome/being unfortunate/being bribed into doing something stupid for entertainment is fine enough.

[Wisecrack34]

I play sec quite often (been working towards eventually being HoS once I find the el dorado of sec officering) and have come to this conclusion: You're being to sereous, if you're a chill,fun sec officer you can even make the Antags hang out with you, possibly persuading them to make their shenanigans more silly and harmless then actually dangerous. I had a round on LLJK1 where I was a Sec officer who made lots of puns, felt betrayed when only 1 person laughed at them and went to train in the arts of being a clown sec officer. I caught a spy breaking into the captains office and instead of ruining his fun near round start I joined him but acted like the captain was coming so we would leave before he nabbed anything useful (Still doing sec work, prevented theft). We became best buds and helped each other out a bunch. Compare that to a round where you hunt down traitors like a reversed predator movie you have less fun and end up shot in the ass for killing the fun. Allow for more variation in sec officers, different setups, different play styles, etc. and you'd pretty much fix it the problem.

[The Grim Sleeper]

if you're a chill,fun sec officer you can even make the Antags hang out with you, possibly persuading them to make their shenanigans more silly and harmless then actually dangerous.

I don't know if I just keep getting connected to the twilight-zone server, but when I join LLJK1 there is 50% of the only other player there to e-gun me down the moment I join, and otherwise he complains that I'm 'out of character' because a Guard has no business in the pharmacy.

I've had good times on LLJK1, but never as anything other then a scientist (or a captain dressed up as a scientist).

On LLJK2, a stunt like 'not stopping the thief from breaking into the captains quarters' would get you scorn at best. If you are having fun on the job, instead of doing your job, is just as fun as it is for every other job. But just like people giving the engineers shit if the lights go out, people will give you 'shitcurity' for not doing the job of keeping the station secure.
But the station is never secure, because that is the whole point of the game.
But people still blame the officers, and the Sec-players end up overwhelmed and unappreciated.

Don't get me wrong, I love that you had a fun time with a gimmick. It just not something I could imagine happening to me, regardless of how nice/gimmicky/accommodating I am.

[Wisecrack34]

if you're a chill,fun sec officer you can even make the Antags hang out with you, possibly persuading them to make their shenanigans more silly and harmless then actually dangerous.

I don't know if I just keep getting connected to the twilight-zone server, but when I join LLJK1 there is 50% of the only other player there to e-gun me down the moment I join, and otherwise he complains that I'm 'out of character' because a Guard has no business in the pharmacy.

I've had good times on LLJK1, but never as anything other then a scientist (or a captain dressed up as a scientist).

On LLJK2, a stunt like 'not stopping the thief from breaking into the captains quarters' would get you scorn at best. If you are having fun on the job, instead of doing your job, is just as fun as it is for every other job. But just like people giving the engineers shit if the lights go out, people will give you 'shitcurity' for not doing the job of keeping the station secure.
But the station is never secure, because that is the whole point of the game.
But people still blame the officers, and the Sec-players end up overwhelmed and unappreciated.

Don't get me wrong, I love that you had a fun time with a gimmick. It just not something I could imagine happening to me, regardless of how nice/gimmicky/accommodating I am.

Never had trouble with people saying "You shouldn't be here", my experience is usually "keep IC and OOC separate, everything else is fair play". Never had trouble with getting E.Gunned off spawn, thought watching or messing with spawn was strictly forbidden. And on the topic of me not doing my job I was technically preventing him from stealing anything by keeping watch and making sure nothing important went missing along with making sure the antag still had a fun round. Its a tough balance but comes naturally when you're goofing off :P

[Mordent]

but when I join LLJK1 there is 50% of the only other player there to e-gun me down the moment I join

Hi. Adminhelp when this happens. It's very rare we get a "so-and-so is being a rampaging turd" adminhelp for LLJK1, partly probably because of the lower population overall, but if you don't report it we can't do something about it.

Carry on.

[Ed Venture]

@Wisecrack34
If you think you are going to constantly get experiences like that while playing as a Security Officer you are solely mistaken. Every long time Security Player can tell you of good times they had with others on the job. But despite not having the urge to play the role at all after 2017 it still remains my favorite job because I put years into playing that role and because I know I'll go back to it someday.

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Also on the topic of this thread I would like rewards to make people play security but I don't think antag tokens should be that reward. I have the same thoughts as Technature.

You start giving more ways to get antag tokens, you start making them worth less. Less special.

Going through a round and doing something awesome/being unfortunate/being bribed into doing something stupid for entertainment is fine enough.

I also think Security could use some fine tuning and new gadgets or something. Any Security Officer will tell you the more tools they have the better.

[Cyfarfod]

I was saying in Discord a bit ago, I certainly wouldn't mind security getting non-slip or low-slip shoes. I'm sure plenty of antags would enjoy being able to kill us for them, too.

[Frank_Stein]

Idea: Gear unlock options for Sec

The more rounds you play, you get the option to pick a special bit of gear from a machine in Sec

Intially they would just be upgrades of current items, like a larger battery taser. Eventually you start getting things that specializes you against a certain kind of play style. 

An example would be armor that's better suited for handling environmental hazards like heat and cold vs armor that provides less protection but boosts your speed.

You earn the upgrades as you play and select your next unlock from a tier, but are limited to which ones you get on a round to round basis

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Couple areas of play style I can see gear development going in

Search and Rescue: Gear that helps you survive hostile environments and to quickly remove and revive people from them

Intel and Espionage: Stuff for being sneaky, getting the drop on people, and collecting information to determine you've got the right person

Hostile Engagement: Stuff for going toe to toe with some of the harder antagonistists like Shambling Abominations and Wrestlers but at a speed cost that makes it more as something to use in response to something

[Tombi]

Some unlocks could be nice but I disagree that they should be straight upgrades. Rather such unlocks should be sidegrades, like the specialised gear you mention. Although I don't know of this is addressing the right problem since if security still isn't fun to play why would people care about specialising? Also just to be that guy isn't this getting a bit off topic? Seems more like general security improvements which can be put here: https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=8747