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GoonStation Murdevolution 2018 : Training Scenario
#16
(12-10-2017, 04:02 PM)Sundance Wrote: Option 1.

BUT

Do tell security what you've done. PDA message them after you've beat that person to near death/to smoosh, after you've healed of course.
You might be thinking: Am I just setting myself up for arrest?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Think about what happens if security finds out that you've killed someone and didn't say anything.
Either AI or quick detective work (your blood/prints will be all over him) will rat you out and suddenly security believe you're acting antagonistic. Now you're arrested, and the salt mill is churning because security aren't really buying your story. I see it happen WAY too often.
Now if you immediately pda'd them, this wouldn't happen. Firstly what self respecting antagonist would report a body and admit murder? It really helps to dispel that sort of shadow looming over you, but it's also super helpful for sec who might have heard conflicting info and more than likely have more important things to deal with.

Sundance is right I've seen that a thousands times as well and it does lead to salt.
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#17
(12-10-2017, 04:18 PM)Ed Venture Wrote:
(12-10-2017, 04:02 PM)Sundance Wrote: Option 1.

BUT

Do tell security what you've done. PDA message them after you've beat that person to near death/to smoosh, after you've healed of course.
You might be thinking: Am I just setting myself up for arrest?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Think about what happens if security finds out that you've killed someone and didn't say anything.
Either AI or quick detective work (your blood/prints will be all over him) will rat you out and suddenly security believe you're acting antagonistic. Now you're arrested, and the salt mill is churning because security aren't really buying your story. I see it happen WAY too often.
Now if you immediately pda'd them, this wouldn't happen. Firstly what self respecting antagonist would report a body and admit murder? It really helps to dispel that sort of shadow looming over you, but it's also super helpful for sec who might have heard conflicting info and more than likely have more important things to deal with.

Sundance is right I've seen that a thousands times as well and it does lead to salt.

Screw PDA's, I just announce whenever I kill an antag/asshole of any description over the radio

"Fuckass McGee just beat me into crit so I ate his heart. If there are no objections, I'll be spacing the body"
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#18
(12-10-2017, 09:18 PM)NateTheSquid Wrote:
(12-10-2017, 04:18 PM)Ed Venture Wrote:
(12-10-2017, 04:02 PM)Sundance Wrote: Option 1.

BUT

Do tell security what you've done. PDA message them after you've beat that person to near death/to smoosh, after you've healed of course.
You might be thinking: Am I just setting myself up for arrest?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Think about what happens if security finds out that you've killed someone and didn't say anything.
Either AI or quick detective work (your blood/prints will be all over him) will rat you out and suddenly security believe you're acting antagonistic. Now you're arrested, and the salt mill is churning because security aren't really buying your story. I see it happen WAY too often.
Now if you immediately pda'd them, this wouldn't happen. Firstly what self respecting antagonist would report a body and admit murder? It really helps to dispel that sort of shadow looming over you, but it's also super helpful for sec who might have heard conflicting info and more than likely have more important things to deal with.

Sundance is right I've seen that a thousands times as well and it does lead to salt.

Screw PDA's, I just announce whenever I kill an antag/asshole of any description over the radio

"Fuckass McGee just beat me into crit so I ate his heart. If there are no objections, I'll be spacing the body"

Nah man, you gotta leave the body so Sec can clone them and yell at them for being such a bad boy (Unsuccessfully, since they logged out as soon as they died)
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#19
I find that even if I do anything like that I have to deal with the discount deject new players playing sec mallcop bullshit anyway. Lot easier (and more fun) to just be ready to beat up half the damn idiot security force as they inevitably charge into wherever I'm working weapons drawn, lose them, then show up 5 minutes later to repeat after I stun them and throw them out and explain what happened until I have the entire sec arsenal in my backpack.

Lines are still too blurred for when its ok to kill the shit out of someone honestly. Not to mention that more than half the players in the community seem to interpret "This guy didn't kill me despite me being unconscious even when I came at him with something dangerous. I'm going to get up a minute later after he's thrown me out and attack him again even though I'm not an antag." and get an unsatisfying "well it was a confused situation/both escalated" answer to the inevitable adminhelp when a mob of like 3 people including shits mcgee there beat me to death in wherever I'm working.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but honestly I'm almost never sure when it's acceptable to just kill someone because I've been yelled at for tossing a detective down the disposals prior to the belt update that made them actually fast after he ran into the mechanics office, shot me up, and started stripping me down then in there in silence. I've been grumped at for cutting limbs off a guy who spent 10 minutes attacking and robbing me. I've been killed by non-antags because I dared try to stop whatever stupid griefy bullshit they've tried to pull that day with not much but a "sucks to be you". Especially as AI, on default laws. Half the time I end up not adminhelping things because I thought my murderer was an antagonist, only to learn at the end of the round that they were just a shitheap. Maybe community attitude has shifted since then, It was during the more "security should be a hugbox" times of the sec cycle. Maybe I'm just a piece of shit. Who fuckin knows.

The example given here is black and white. The guy beat you into crit. You would have died. He would have killed you if someone else hadn't done something. (Unrealistic as I've learned, anyone who isn't sec will happily stand by and watch you get beaten to death a good 80% of the time even if just running into your attacker would save your life /salt) You kill him. You destroy his corpse or he will come back to shit again.

What you need to ask about is the gray and grey that makes up like 90% of fights. Situations that you can't be positive if they were trying to kill you or not until they have. We've all had a few. A punch fight gone too far. Some nerd being offended that you called him dumb over the radio for trying to rob you and is attacking you. Having a dumb newb as your roboticist partner who keeps attacking people in the room with circular saws and attacks you after you flash him and tell him to knock that crap out. These are where the issues lie.

/effort
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#20
I think that in terms of... like, my experience as how things ACTUALLY WORK on Goonstation (which I enjoy 95% of the timed) suggests you're all correct, option 1 is right.

The idealist in my wants to stump for Option 2 though.

Consider this- out of the two options, which makes the round more interesting for THE MOST PEOPLE? In option one, you, the assaulter, and rando-botanist are the only ones really involved in the action. In option 2, suddenly... SEC can get involved, MEDBAY can get involved, random people in the hallways can get involved.

Option 1 is the strategy that, as things stand, gives you the most chance, most often, of surviving longest in rounds and so potentially having the most fun.

BUT! Am I crazy for thinking that if by some miracle EVERYONE followed option 2, things'd GENERALLY be more interesting for more people? I know LLJK2 is the NO RP server, but the best times (I think a lot of people would agree!) are when people still brush a thin, thin veneer of RP onto their zany shit, and I guess I just... I try not to play as someone that who's comfortable with killing unless I'm an antag.
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#21
I think more people would go for option two if the person wasn't a silent assassin person which has been done to death.

Or in this case, a potential griefing prick.

I've seen people attempt to get themselves kidnapped in the possibility of being held in a game show against their will. People are willing to let interesting things happen on the server, even if it results in their potential death. Silent killers that punch people to death are noticeably less welcomed.
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