When are bombs OK?

[Vitatroll]

This is all completely new to me. Please tell me more about the improvised weapons.

They're unfinished and generally suck atm. Bows are admin only. They're made at a workbench. Generally straight forward; rods being base and arrow heads/pointy things being up top. Arrows and Spears can be dipped for 5u (I think) of reagents to transfer to your target. You can make them out of different materials. Arrow heads get stuck inside the person you stab with them.

Jabbing somebody with a cerenkite/telecrystal arrow dipped in sarin is very rude.

I don't think this is secret information or anything; just unfinished product so the info is pretty moot.

[Grek]

Arrows are currently bugged. Rods don't work as shafts and crowbars produce "mauxite tipped Youshouldneverseemeium arrows" instead.

[Sundance]

Hello!
I'm just revisting this thread as it seems certain individuals have forgotten that it's really not ok to carry around TTV's and explode them in traitors faces, removing the entirity of robotics in the process just because that traitor, myself, was essentially confirmed. Especially if said traitor wasn't being aggresive in the slightest, inviting him into robotics and was speaking to him casually.
It kind of crosses the line between being "necessarily cruel" and "breaking the f'ing rules"

I am aware that this player reads the forums and while it is not my intention to backseat mod at all, it was more due to the fact that this was a straw breaking the donkeys back scenario, as I have seen bombs used in scenarios where it is not justified in the slightest and wanted to highlight that this is something that seems to be flaring up again.

[medsal15]

Hello!
I'm just revisting this thread as it seems certain individuals have forgotten that it's really not ok to carry around TTV's and explode them in traitors faces, removing the entirity of robotics in the process just because that traitor, myself, was essentially confirmed. Especially if said traitor wasn't being aggresive in the slightest, inviting him into robotics and was speaking to him casually.
It kind of crosses the line between being "necessarily cruel" and "breaking the f'ing rules"

I am aware that this player reads the forums and while it is not my intention to backseat mod at all, it was more due to the fact that this was a straw breaking the donkeys back scenario, as I have seen bombs used in scenarios where it is not justified in the slightest and wanted to highlight that this is something that seems to be flaring up again.

I hate antag murder if the antag never hurt anyone. Cloning people after absorbing them doesnt count as murder for me.
TTVing someone is ok only if this person represents a nearly immortal threat.

[Vitatroll]

I'm still for explosions in extreme circumstances, but those situations (methed up, genetic super-ling with treds) are far more rare than they used to be, and that's only about pipe bombs.

[Roomba]

"Non-aggressive" is a bit of a stretch - even if you personally hadn't been causing any trouble, an army of sturdy syndieborgs had been rampaging across the station, with fairly explicit instructions from you to murder everyone in their way. In addition, medbay had been bombed about thrice by three different traitors by that point, and any survivors were killed off by the borgs - by the time I did it, medbay was functionally unrecoverable and solidly under control of the syndieborgs. When a couple of them went in with the roboticist I saw a chance and took it. A bit of an extreme measure, but it cut off the problem at the source and didn't damage any area that wasn't already damaged. Could less explosive measures have resolved the situation? Perhaps, but that wasn't what I had on hand.

The issue was kind of compounded by sec being worse than useless - a whole lot of new players joined that round, and most of them went straight to sec, then promptly began arresting everyone for the crime of being in their general vicinity. Having to dodge both killer robots and sec makes it very hard to come up with a plan other than 'oh hey someone left a bomb lying around, I can deal with at least one of those problems'.

[Sov]

depends on the bomb imo

3x3 bombs are pretty localized and easily fixable

[ferriswheel1]

"Non-aggressive" is a bit of a stretch - even if you personally hadn't been causing any trouble, an army of sturdy syndieborgs had been rampaging across the station, with fairly explicit instructions from you to murder everyone in their way. In addition, medbay had been bombed about thrice by three different traitors by that point, and any survivors were killed off by the borgs - by the time I did it, medbay was functionally unrecoverable and solidly under control of the syndieborgs. When a couple of them went in with the roboticist I saw a chance and took it. A bit of an extreme measure, but it cut off the problem at the source and didn't damage any area that wasn't already damaged. Could less explosive measures have resolved the situation? Perhaps, but that wasn't what I had on hand.

The issue was kind of compounded by sec being worse than useless - a whole lot of new players joined that round, and most of them went straight to sec, then promptly began arresting everyone for the crime of being in their general vicinity. Having to dodge both killer robots and sec makes it very hard to come up with a plan other than 'oh hey someone left a bomb lying around, I can deal with at least one of those problems'.

In this context, I would say bombing was justified. A swarm of syndicate borgs is easily a game-over scenario in any round, especially if they have a roboticist backing them up, repairing them and building new borgs from their victims. I should know, I've created them myself twice.

I'd say bombing is okay in any situation when the station is in a state worthy of a shuttle call, I.E unrecoverable, and no other weapon could conceivably deal with the threat. For example, a blob that has taken over most of the station is probably fine, the routing depot not so much. Making a considerable area of the station uninhabitable is an option that should never be used if conventional weapons can still have an effect.

Having said that though, I've noticed a recent increase in vigilante murder of friendly antags. Just because they're an admitted antagonist should not give the average crew-member the right to outright murder them on sight. It's boring, kills fun for both the antag and the round and should absolutely not happen.

[Noah Buttes]

Murder of friendly antagonists seems like the kind of issue that should be handled by in-game security forces.

[Sundance]

Before I go on this, please note that this is not a kneejerk reaction, it's actually been a few days since the round as if I'm peeved off about something I normally wait a few days to approach it from a more logical mindset.

Nor is this personal, I don't have any issue with how Roomba plays, it's just that in this particular scenario I felt it was poor judgement on his part. There is a time and a place for a bomb, this was not one.

Seen as we're talking about the round in question, let's bring up the facts:

1. There was hardly a robot rising, although if I hadn't been suicidebombed it may of gotten to that stage. There was 4 robots, 1 died early on, all 3 robots were killed in about 5-10 minutes after the bombing.
2. Medbay foyer was depressurized, but medbay proper was functional. The bomb literally eradicated the entirety of robotics, a 7x7 bomb And it killed NONE of my borgs.
3. I never killed anyone directly. I wasn't running around gunning down people, even though I was armed (2 derringers, an esword, energy rifle, plasma shard) to the teeth. You say that you had "no other option" but I was generally approachable the entire round. 
4. Security (or read: that one sec officer) was pretty bad, but it's a damn massive leap to go from vigilante justice to suicidebombing. Also you were cooking those bombs for a while, so it's not like you just had a bomb lying around, it was pre-meditated. 

It's just the whole nature of the suicidebomb that puts a sour taste in my mouth. 

First of all, there's no friggin' in-hand sprite so I let you in thinking you just wanted to be converted, not realizing you were either constructing one or had one in your hand the whole time.

Secondly other than wearing EOD armor there's literally no hard counter to a bomb. 

And lastly it's the act of the suicidebomb that's pretty reprehensible. It's literally "you're a traitor, i'm not, we both die, so really only you lose". Unless a player is hardcore turbo-nerding or a blob has taken over the station then there's literally no reason for using them ON the station.

Murder of friendly antagonists seems like the kind of issue that should be handled by in-game security forces.

I was pretty nefarious, but my outwardly friendliness is not my argument about the suicidebomb, it's the suicidebomb itself.

[Roomba]

1. There was hardly a robot rising, although if I hadn't been suicidebombed it may of gotten to that stage. There was 4 robots, 1 died early on, all 3 robots were killed in about 5-10 minutes after the bombing.

See, that's the issue. The borgs might not have seemed that effective to you, but they'd already killed quite a lot of people. I know that they're all syndie borgs, that the only roboticist on duty is helping them, and that if the problem isn't stopped at the source the syndie borg problem is only going to grow larger. The quickest solution I had on hand was to take out robotics + the roboticist, to stop the problem from snowballing and make life harder for any syndieborgs that survived the blast. Although I doubt you'll believe me, the bomb really wasn't just me - a few other toxins scientists had been cooking them up before I came into the scene.

Is it just the fact that it was a suicidal act bothering you? Would it have been less of an issue if I'd just chucked the bomb and ran, or dug up a bomb suit, or taken some other measure to survive it? I felt the bomb was the most appropriate measure and didn't mess up anywhere that wasn't already busted, the main reason why I didn't try surviving it was because it was a very frustrating round and i didn't particularly want to live further.

[babayetu83]

Hello!
I'm just revisting this thread as it seems certain individuals have forgotten that it's really not ok to carry around TTV's and explode them in traitors faces, removing the entirity of robotics in the process just because that traitor, myself, was essentially confirmed. Especially if said traitor wasn't being aggresive in the slightest, inviting him into robotics and was speaking to him casually.
It kind of crosses the line between being "necessarily cruel" and "breaking the f'ing rules"

I am aware that this player reads the forums and while it is not my intention to backseat mod at all, it was more due to the fact that this was a straw breaking the donkeys back scenario, as I have seen bombs used in scenarios where it is not justified in the slightest and wanted to highlight that this is something that seems to be flaring up again.

but m-muh valids...

[Lady Birb]

I remember suggesting a rocket launcher with rockets that only damage mobs, not station infrastructure, as rare loot from heavily reinforced military crates, but it didn't go anywhere. Perhaps more ways to blow shit up without causing hull breaches or damaging equipment would partially remedy this.

[UrsulaMejor]

As a general rule, bombs should only be used when the damage they do to the area is negligible compared to the damage already done by antagonists in that area, I.e., the blob nucleus or depressurised turbo robo changeling playground

If there is a reasonable suspicion that your bomb could depressurize additional areas of the station or lead to crew deaths, don't use the bomb.

[misto]

hey guys, while youre talking about bombs, did they ever move the bomb testing asteroid base thing a bit farther away from the station. i distinctly remember a masterfully large bomb detonated on said asteroid still put a few holes in the southwestern corner of the station

it seems like a mild oversight that even someone playing nice and kindly exploding the asteroid would still wind up causing damage to the main station