When are bombs OK?

[Sundance]

So after a recent enough round where I witnessed someone using black powder to mess up a traitor and gib him while also damaging (albeit minimally) the station and without any loss of life other than the traitor and severely damaging himself, the significantly salty traitor bemoaned that weaponisizing explosives as a non-antagonists is not cool, no matter the circumstance.

I'm inclined to agree with him. Being in situation myself where I was pipebombed as a wizard who literally just arrived on the station by someone with a bag packed to the brim full of the aforementioned explosive.

I've been of the opinion that bombing is not ok as a non-antagonist, and the only point where it's ok is at literal last resort, something absolutely unholy admin spawned antagonist that is literally messing up shit in its path and lastly, blobs.

..But the reaction I got was tepid, hostile and demeaning. Not surprising, ghost chat is cancer, but it's ALWAYS been the unwritten rule that it's not ok, never has been ok, that bombing someone as a non-antagonist (no matter what the bomb) is incredibly shit behaviour. This is coming from someone who has witnessed this over years, so I'm not just pulling this opinion out of my ass.

Discuss.

[Ed Venture]

I think bombing a antag is ok if you and other people talk about it first, agree on it and then set a location for the trap that is the bombing.

Suicide bombing a antag is something I've seen lots of people have issue with and I've even seen admins threaten bans for doing it.

Personally I think if chems are okay to use on antags then so should bombs if it is a last resort and some planning goes into to.

Why last resort? Cause Blowing up a part of the station and possibility getting more people killed seems counter intuitive.

[medsal15]

Bombs are ok when nobody is in the collateral field. And if you patch up the damages.

[Vitatroll]

It depends on the situation and intent, as always.

Blowing up a genetically enhanced changeling with a BP pipebomb isn't that bad. I mean what else would stop it?

Blowing up yourself and the wizard in a suicide bombing is bad. Blobs are generally the only appropriate suicide bomb target, and to be honest it's not very effective.

Blowing up a clown car full of people with a TTV is very bad. No, seriously people - don't.


Bombs are cheap, but antags often do cheap things. Things that basically leave a person to fight fire with fire or die. Not everybody is good with chemistry, and it's arguably worse. Now if somebody is running around with a pipebomb 24/7 and tries to blow up antags every round, well, that's a shit person who needs a talkin'. I don't really see anybody do this though.

[Marquesas]

It is OK to:
- Mine with bombs
- Refine your bombs in the testing area
- Destroy large chunks of blob. This must be done in areas which are beyond recovery, such as already vented edges of station. If it harms anyone else or vents an area with any kind of traffic, we will crack the shit down on you.

It is not OK to:
- Bomb antagonists. If it harms anyone else or vents an area with any kind of traffic, we will crack the shit down on you.

For the record, we don't care that you patched it up afterwards. It's still been sucking air out for over 2 minutes, it's likely to stay too cold and too thin in air for traversal.

This is a very thin line, I do realize. But you have to be absolutely sure you're not fucking anything or anyone up if you're going to go for bombing an antagonist, we understand that someone minmaxes it out far too bad occasionally - decide whether or not the consequences of messing up are worth it to you.

[Boon Yoon]

What about syndicates? I think they can handle a couple pipes and chembombs. TTVs should be off the menu, of course.

[The Grim Sleeper]

I have very mixed feeling about this topic.

On the one hand, I feel using bombs indiscriminately is a incredibly dick move. All but the smallest of explosions will devastate a sector, making life for the rest of the station hell.

On the other hand, the Rampage topic indicates a need for bystanders to be more proactive in fighting antagonists. Pipebombs (in particular, but also derivatives like mouse-trap bombs) are an easy-to-mass-build weapon with good stopping power if they hit the mark. They are obviously very indiscriminate, not to mention any combatant worth their PDA will run clear of the blast while innocent people go up in gibs. But when going after a fully loaded Miner-traitor or a rogue captain, a toolbox is not gonna make a dent.
(Just for the curious, there are other improvised weapons, the ol'staple staplegun, the flame thrower, the whatever-that-one-thing-is-you-would-make-with-a-workbench-but-can't-cause-nobody-told-me-the-secret-recipe, even the humble pie can be very effective at disabling somebody wearing a helmet.)

The most simple solution would be for players to label anybody carrying explosives around as a traitor, and for others to try and put them down like one, regardless of their actual antagonist status.
But I for one am in favor of a more proactive admin-stance on indiscriminate destruction.

[Noah Buttes]

(the whatever-that-one-thing-is-you-would-make-with-a-workbench-but-can't-cause-nobody-told-me-the-secret-recipe)

I don't think you can make bows at workbenches yet and spears are currently broken and do no damage. You can stab people with arrows, but you can just outright miss with them. Though, if you hit your target, the arrow will become embedded.

[Marquesas]

Just for the curious, there are other improvised weapons, the ol'staple staplegun, the flame thrower, the whatever-that-one-thing-is-you-would-make-with-a-workbench-but-can't-cause-nobody-told-me-the-secret-recipe, even the humble pie can be very effective at disabling somebody wearing a helmet.

This is exactly how you should be doing it.

[atomic1fire]

You can get ammo fairly easily by just hacking a general manufacturer and pulsing some wires until you can make bullets.

Also there's a HIDDEN zip gun in maint somewhere near chapel IIRC, if you're just looking to get a zip gun quick.

I do wish bows and spears would get added though. Otherwise if you're adventuring around you can crack safes and maybe find a laser.

[Grumpchkin]

You can get ammo fairly easily by just hacking a general manufacturer and pulsing some wires until you can make bullets.

Also there's a HIDDEN zip gun in maint somewhere near chapel IIRC, if you're just looking to get a zip gun quick.

I do wish bows and spears would get added though. Otherwise if you're adventuring around you can crack safes and maybe find a laser.

Riot shotguns and lasers aren't exactly uncommon in the faint signal safe, you can also find phasers in the 4 crates, otherwise there is a zipgun in the Russian ship together with a chemlab.

[MollyMillions]

Blowing up the diner or whatever you find on other z-levels is also generally OK. If it's not part of the station, go nuts, so long as no one who isn't an antag gets hurt.

Rarely, a situation will come up where bombs are a reasonable solution for a non-antag. When in doubt, adminhelp and ask us if it's OK.

[Nnystyxx]

You can get ammo fairly easily by just hacking a general manufacturer and pulsing some wires until you can make bullets.

Also there's a HIDDEN zip gun in maint somewhere near chapel IIRC, if you're just looking to get a zip gun quick.

I do wish bows and spears would get added though. Otherwise if you're adventuring around you can crack safes and maybe find a laser.

Riot shotguns and lasers aren't exactly uncommon in the faint signal safe, you can also find phasers in the 4 crates, otherwise there is a zipgun in the Russian ship together with a chemlab.

there is also a free fully-charged phaser on the time ship, you just have to walk in and it's right in your view

[atomic1fire]

I have very mixed feeling about this topic.

On the one hand, I feel using bombs indiscriminately is a incredibly dick move. All but the smallest of explosions will devastate a sector, making life for the rest of the station hell.

On the other hand, the Rampage topic indicates a need for bystanders to be more proactive in fighting antagonists. Pipebombs (in particular, but also derivatives like mouse-trap bombs) are an easy-to-mass-build weapon with good stopping power if they hit the mark. They are obviously very indiscriminate, not to mention any combatant worth their PDA will run clear of the blast while innocent people go up in gibs. But when going after a fully loaded Miner-traitor or a rogue captain, a toolbox is not gonna make a dent.
(Just for the curious, there are other improvised weapons, the ol'staple staplegun, the flame thrower, the whatever-that-one-thing-is-you-would-make-with-a-workbench-but-can't-cause-nobody-told-me-the-secret-recipe, even the humble pie can be very effective at disabling somebody wearing a helmet.)

The most  simple solution would be for players to label anybody carrying explosives around as a traitor, and for others to try and put them down like one, regardless of their actual antagonist status.
But I for one am in favor of a more proactive admin-stance on indiscriminate destruction.

I could see someone building nonlethal bombs, like neurotoxin/morphine smoke, or hooking up flashbangs to mousetraps. Might not be terribly useful on a changeling, but it should disrupt a traitor. You should even be able to hit syndies with a pipebomb car made out of a flashbang. Or use it as a diversion while someone charges in from somewhere else.

That would be a fairly easy way to disrupt an antag without destroying the station and the worst effects could be fixed with some neurological damage medkits

[The Grim Sleeper]

...bows...spears...arrows...

This is all completely new to me. Please tell me more about the improvised weapons.