GENETICS

[Noah Buttes]

People will probably hate this idea, but to me the idea of a clone is the dna only, not the memories up to a certain point... say the start of the round. Also the clone isn't the same person so...

When you get cloned, the cloner prints you out your new assistant ID, and invalidates your old ID. If the HoP or Captain want to repromote you, great. If not, your incentive to not die is to not end up a staff assistant. It should be a strict rule that your clone doesn't remember how the old you died, and perhaps occasionally have it give messages like "your clone is having trouble remembering how to use these items" the first few times you use a more technical item. Just little hiccups and inconveniences. Kind of like how a rogue-lite might let your family member continue with all your history but the character itself is fresh.

Goon has always been a light roleplay server. This suggestion seems like it would go strongly against the grain.

[Sundance]

Yes maybe removing cloning is a bit too extreme but I do feel like with genetics now open to the public there needs to be more negative things in when you are getting cloned.
Some ideas (other than spawning as a genetic mishap with disfigurement
-Spawning completely bald and beardless
-Spawning as an unknown
-Spawning with a necrosis of one of your organs or limbs, could possibly need surgery for a robotic replacement
-Spawning with incurable deafness or blindness
-Spawning as gender swapped (oh no!)
-Spawning with significant brain damage and crippling mutations that IS curable.
-Spawning with incurable dyspraxia
-Spawning body swapped by someone who was already scanned. Woops!
-Spawning with an addiction to morphine

Basically what i'm implying is that you may spawn with a 1 or 2 of these when you are ejected, more so if it's your second time being cloned. It would mean that there's more work to do after being cloned by medical doctors, if there's no medical doctors around after you are cloned... well tough shit.

[Ali0en]

No sundance. Being public already means any dimwit can fuck it up without having genetics access.

[Noah Buttes]

No sundance. Being public already means any dimwit can fuck it up without having genetics access.

Yeah, there's that.

The main section of medbay is one of the highest crime areas on the station.

[TheOnlyRyan]

Good god isn't this a big hefty pile of built up emotion. Large and bold text galore. I know how you feel, but the coders are under no obligation to pay attention. If you haven't noticed, the ideas forum is where grandiose ideas go to die, or where people tear each other to bits over the new hot topic.

It is emotional for me, because Genetics has always been one of my favorite jobs for 5 years of spacestation I've loved the job, and with Genetics how it is now I'm probably playing the job role less than I ever have, over every station I've played on.

First off as someone who doesn't even play genetics: Make genetic injectors available wayyyy earlier in research.

I kinda think Injectors should be availible at the start of the round.

Geneticists could find one good or fun gene, make a few copies and sell it via market or whatever. If someone wants to stability OD on hulk, fire proof, and tk that's their fault.

The amount of deja vu I'm getting here is crazy. A ton of people agreed with making injectors more readily available in my first thread yet nothing was done, not even a single staff members opinion on the feasibility.

I'll just say it again, this is a thing a bunch of people seem to be ok with happening. Even people who don't touch the job, Geneticist.

Secondly, make tie in the money scanner in genetics to the research funds.

Like it, however more pressing problems need to be addressed before this is a thing.

Those are some big threads and I haven't read them or any of this forum, could you sum up your proposed changes real quick?

Well It's kinda difficult to summarize, there was a lot talked about and a lot of changes proposed. It really would be worth a gloss over, if you think you're up to changing Genetics around and improving the job for everyone.

A lot of people seem ok with injectors being readily available, however while I would welcome that I don't think that's where the problem for me personally lies, for me It's how Genetics used to be a "traitor-able job role". By traitor-able job role I mean a job that you can use to give yourself a significant boost to help with being a traitor. Yes there are powers that could help you significantly but at a cost of being blind, having to wear those funky glasses which give you horrible vision or your hearing, having to use a basic headset.

Not to mention giving yourself these powers will take a good half an hour to research injectors, and even longer if you're unable to find the power you want. Chemists don't have such a painful wait time for the horrible concoctions they can make. To "fix" some of this readily available injectors would help, not only by helping someone who wants to give themselves powers to be a traitor, but so Geneticists can more freely give away helpful powers, not having to wait 30-40 minutes for research and then spend 40 material on each injectors plus time between injectors.

As for more powers, the second thread posted up top is only 2 pages long and includes some interesting powers, making making an official staff made thread for Power ideas and or feedback thread to make sure the changes are making are helping.

All I ask for a coder to keep track of Genetics and try to make powers a factor in the station again.

[Paineframe]

If we're going to talk about removing cloning, we sorta need to look at the broad perspective of things, mainly because there's a few contradicting ideologies being thrown about with SS13 design.

The biggest counterpoint I've seen to having cloning removed is the recent push by some admins for longer rounds. While I personally disagree with longer rounds, that's not what I'm here to talk about. Removing cloning is directly against this ideology of longer rounds, because the main disdain for longer rounds comes from people who are dead during them. The thing is that changes are actually being put in place towards these longer rounds, most notably with redesigning the way antags function. Removing cloning would basically require a re-balancing of the entire game.

Ideally, a dead person should just hop onto another server if they die and can't get revived, but that doesn't happen. Nothing will make people play on the other servers, other than a unending, PSA-every-round, push that the admins that would just end in another wave of backlash by players.

If we're going to decided the fate of cloning, and generally being revived, we need to ask what we want in the long run. If we want short rounds, make revival extremely difficult. If we want long rounds, make revival extremely easy. This would also feedback into how antags are balanced. If revival is easy, then make antags extremely powerful. If it's difficult, then make antags more evenly powered with the average joe.

There's another perfectly functional method of revival (two, actually) though. In fact, the OP of this thread even has suggestions about massively revamping that other method to make it cooler and funner. Sure, people are gigantic babies about being borged since they have to follow laws, can't make a few obscure super secret chems, and aren't allowed to randomly beat people for minor affronts, but if someone would rather be dead than be silicon them I don't see why we have to shorten the round for them or give them a consequence-free revival.

[Erev]

I very much feel that cloning should be kept. It helps people get back into the game, it is a staple of SciFi (even if it 'doesn't work like that'), and it gives options in terms of ressurection.

Am I against the Frankenstein table? No! This sounds like a wonderful tool - something that could be found in the Russian shuttle or, perhaps, some experimental biology lab.

Do I think the cloner is perfect? No - I do want to see things like defects creep in during cloning. I also think the cloner should keep the poison you put in it until the enzyme tank is flushed (removing the bio matter reserves [poison added to the deep fryer should act in a similar but not identical manner - losing small amounts per item fried as opposed to most/all of it]).

[Noah Buttes]

I think the problem with robotics is less the lack of people to borg and more the lack of utility outside of borgs.

Sure, you can give people robo limbs and such, but that's only useful to an extent.

I think we should focus less on genetics and more on the real issue: robotics is pretty lame right now.

There's tons of potential for mad science as well as more practical industrial machinery. Give us more specialized or customizable station bots. Let us set up assembly lines like the ones in the buddy factory. Let us do something besides cater to a bunch of cyborgs.

[Ed Venture]

robotics is pretty lame right now.

Robotics has been lame for years now. Robot limbs made it slightly less lame.

[Stryxic]

Hmm. Why not have all three, in terms of Robotics/Cloning/Frankestein?

By this, I mean you have it set out so that Robotics is guaranteed to give you certain kinds of bonuses, and certain negatives. The bonuses of robitcs being, as BaneOfGigyas said -

+ Robustness
+ Utility
+ AI Positives
- AI Limitations
- Limited (On the whole)
- Versatility

I have paraphrased that an awful lot. Cloning is just a direct second chance, so why not have Frankensteining as a bonus to other things? For example -

+ They're already dead, so Toxin and O2 resistance
- They're already dead, so less maximum health, and they get blown apart more easily

+They're functioning off of electricity, so more of an ability to shrug off stuns from tasers/stun batons
- They're functioning off a lot of electricity, so a big surge like an APC/Door shocking might just outright kill them.

+ They're dead, and so can't bleed.
- They're dead, and sure as hell non human. They don't get protected by normal AI laws, and the AI doesn't have to listen to them.

The availability of ways of revival isn't a huge issue in my mind, as if there was no cloning then people would just be more on the ball when it comes to making borgs on the whole. At least for no other reason than there's going to be more available corpses for borging. If there was a third option added, somewhere near Pathology or the monkey pen as it is more experimental, then that could allow for more variety on reanimation. Nuke Ops going to town and blowing up large holes? Get a load of Frankenstein Men to fight back. Ling running around turning everyone to husks? Borg time. Stock antag action? Good 'ole cloning.


That's not to say I don't think some changes should be made to clowning - Robotics has the limitations of having to get the materials and building it. Frankensteining could have the issue of needing a large charge from the engine (Although what with the power laser being a thing, hellburns are more common nowadays) and perhaps a concoction of chemicals as someone has already said (sorry I can't remember who it was).

Similarly cloning should have something, so why not make it like genetics? In order to successfully clone someone, you need to piece back together their DNA. If you want to half arse it, go ahead! You get a clone with a load of bad mutations, which might potentially just instagib them on the way out. Or you'll have a blind mute deaf swedish man who hates you from being so lazy, and bringing him into this horrific existence. Then at least you don't have the issue of a paywall, and Geneticists might be a bit more willing to clone people. Hell, maybe they might find beneficial mutations for their own research by piecing together someone else's DNA. Maybe each bad gene they remove from the person being cloned adds another mutation to their researched mutations.

[TheOnlyRyan]

If people don't like getting cloned because it ruins their immersion there's also Do Not Resuscitate.

For everyone who enjoys being cloned, feel free to be cloned because I can't see cloning going anywhere with the amount of people for pro cloning.

[Berrik]

The brief period of time when everyone was spawning with mutations due to traits is a pretty good example of why genetics superpowers shouldn't be too widely spread.

[Frank_Stein]

One idea that I think is worth merit is making the cloning process more involved/quicker/riskier

Some kind of cloning puzzle game where the person on the console has an attempt to get the DNA sequenced right for the clone.

Once they are finished, the clone is done, but mistakes lead to cloning errors like bad mutations, deformities, or incorrect features.

[Berrik]

I dunno about you but I would probably fuck that up on purpose for amusement.

[Frank_Stein]

I dunno about you but I would probably fuck that up on purpose for amusement.

Right. Or just rush through it to make them faster. It gives cloning a needed negative in comparison to borging, while letting people build skills and master it. Maybe 100% accuracy can also reward genetics with research points or unlocked genes or whatever.