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Ok, so after experiencing a shift of gang that was so bad it made Revolution look like a good game-mode, I have come up with a few new ideas that will totally change how Gang Mode is played.
1. Make it so only four gangs spawn in one department each with the possibility to either win by domination, or by peaceful methods.:
Ok, so this is the biggest change I am suggesting, instead of having gang leaders place the locker wherever they damn well please, there are only four lockers and they spawn in the four different departments, Shipping, Research, Engineering, and Hyproponics/Kitchen Bar area.
How this would work:
The concept I am envisioning is the four different departmnets haveing their turf consist of their position on the station. So Shipping's turf would be the northern part of the station, Engineering's turf would be Mining, and the Warehouse, Hydroponics department would have control of the bar, fitness room, crew quarters, and the VR, and Research would have control of the medical section.
This way, the borders would already be defined, and allow gangs to have structure, organization, and the chance to actually have peaceful negotiations with one another. What they would is what my next section is about.
2. Make Spray-Paint Cans have limited sprays, and add other peaceful goals into the mix:
Now, since the four departments all have their evident uses, each department will have something the other departments wants, and they will get is by any means necessary. This can be unique items like Gnome Chompski, or the RCD, it could also be large units of things like 200 leaves of weed, or 100 units of bath salts, or maybe even one active alien artifact.
These new additions would encourage the gangs to think of negotiating, for example, imagine the Shipping Gang needs to send 100 leaves of weed back to space hideout to receive an Energy Gun from them, so they shoot a message over to the Botanists, offering them a fully stocked Engineering Crate if they send over the weed. Or the Research Gang needs 10,00 credits, and they decide to accumulate the money by selling the different department bombs, and various vats of chemicals. As you can already tell, there are pros and cons regarding this method.
Now in this overhaul all of the tags are already present in the department's respective turfs, so for other gangs to flip them they would need to tag over the first ones. I say we make Spray-Paint cans have limited uses, so they would have to refill them back at base, or order more cans at QM.
3. How Gangs Warfare would work:
So, the HEAD HONCHO Shipping gang is ready to finally wipe the SWEDISH DOOBIE BROTHER'S BAR AND WEED GARDEN off the map. To do this, they need weapons to fight(obviously), Spray-paint to flip all of the turf, and the tools to break any defenses. The fight would go exactly how all fights go, the Shipping Gang would come barging in, weapons flying around and attack the Bar Gang, if Shipping flips all of the turf and kills the other gang the won fight, or if it turns out they lose, the Swedish Doobie Brothers get to add Shipping under their control.
As you'd imagine the other gangs would not be happy with another gang doubling their empire, so you might see the TABLE WRENCHERS running in armed with their toolboxes to make sure the other gangs are wiped out, while the HYPERZINE CLOWNS come in bath salt smoke abalze.
If one Gang gets the unique item or amount of X items needed, while they control another department, they win.
4. How Security and Heads should conduct themselves:
This is the biggest problem regarding this mode; should Security try and fight every gang to keep control, or should they just monitor the civilians, leaving the gangs to their own mechanisms?
In this revamp it is already obvious that these four gangs are strong enough to be able to walk around claiming part of the station as their own so Security really is not in the dominant position. Security should just stay the fuck out of Gang business, because if they interfere too much, they could risk the gangs mobbing them and simply looting Security as their own weapons.
Of course Security has their options, maybe they do their best to make sure civilians stay out of the crossfire, or maybe they except bribes from the gangs to keep their nose out of their turf, of course when they hear over the radio about a battle royale going on in the warehouse, they could always jump in and reclaim the station as their own.
Ok, it is 2 AM, I need to get up at 7 AM and instead of sleep I posted this. I hope this thread actually contributes something good. :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:
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whoever gets control of research/medbay wins INSTANTLY due to the access to nasty and helpful things there.
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Normally you are, but the Research Gang would also require certain items that only the other gangs had the items to get, so the research team may have too barter away certain chems, medicine, or bombs to get what they need.
Thinking about I have decided that giving Research Medbay is WAY too much, so there would be a 5th Gang in Medbay that would also take care of cloning, and borging.
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about the sec thing: i'm pretty sure sec would have behaved exactly as they should have during that round had they not been gifted a gang a locker. it's not really a fault of the mode as much as it is an unfortunate event that just hit the gangs which had already spawned in from the side.
i think the other thing really being complained about in deadchat was the early beatings being doled out. i really like this possibility for gangs(things like the sad rats medbay massacre couldn't happen otherwise), but maybe to make it happen more randomly and not just because "oh look. robust guys 1, 2, and 3 decided to join the same gang" something like the member restriction suggestion from the gang mode thread could be implemented.
maybe there could be a system like some turn-based games have where people-depending on who they are-have a point value and gangs have a maximum team value. this sounds like a pain in the ass to code or even be arbitrary about but i wanted to get it out of my head anyways.
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CaptainBravo Wrote:about the sec thing: i'm pretty sure sec would have behaved exactly as they should have during that round had they not been gifted a gang a locker. it's not really a fault of the mode as much as it is an unfortunate event that just hit the gangs which had already spawned in from the side.
i think the other thing really being complained about in deadchat was the early beatings being doled out. i really like this possibility for gangs(things like the sad rats medbay massacre couldn't happen otherwise), but maybe to make it happen more randomly and not just because "oh look. robust guys 1, 2, and 3 decided to join the same gang" something like the member restriction suggestion from the gang mode thread could be implemented.
maybe there could be a system like some turn-based games have where people-depending on who they are-have a point value and gangs have a maximum team value. this sounds like a pain in the ass to code or even be arbitrary about but i wanted to get it out of my head anyways.
yeah after I died the second time I learned that only one gang spawned and the admins accidentally made a Security Officer one of the Gang-leaders so It is clear that the round was flawed from the beginning. That and the INCREDIBLY RUDE JANITOR THAT SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS having two derringers hidden in his Jumpsuit 
I also agree that the way gangs are played needs to be reworked right now. People join Gangs and act like they are fucking revolutionaries, ignore their gang leader, and just run around killing anyone wearing gang shit, while the rest of his gang gets lynched because of what he did. I suggested that there be five department gangs so the gangs instantly know who they are supposed to work together, and know what their turf is. I also suggested we add peaceful goals to encourage the gangs to use peaceful tactics and negotiation.
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The real problem with gang mode is that it's just so damn ambiguous.
It was a fine, maybe even great, mode back when it was a version of extended with hand-picked antagonists and different enough from an ordinary game-type that half the crew had no idea what was going on, and it stayed a bit secretive.
Now it's just a disorganized mob war, similar to Rev, except the revolutionaries who want to beat heads in rush to get to the largest and easiest to access gang (the past two I've been in there's only been one gang spawned on the station anyway), rather than being selected by secretive agents.
Security and Heads don't have any purpose at all unless the gang members really do start beating heads in, if they can actually find any rival gang members, and there's all these ambiguous rules about who you can and can't assault or even arrest. With any of the other modes the Heads and Security are tasked with keeping the station running smoothly with as little rampage and genocide as possible (at least that's what the 'good' ones do) while in gang their main purpose is to Stay Out Of the Way while the self appointed quasi-antagonists do... something?
I like the modifications you suggest, at least it would encourage a more organized approach to the mode, rather than a grey-rush to that locker than someone spawned in toolstorage and immediately announces over the radio
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FrontlineAcrobat4 Wrote:I also agree that the way gangs are played needs to be reworked right now. People join Gangs and act like they are fucking revolutionaries, ignore their gang leader, and just run around killing anyone wearing gang shit, while the rest of his gang gets lynched because of what he did. I suggested that there be five department gangs so the gangs instantly know who they are supposed to work together, and know what their turf is. I also suggested we add peaceful goals to encourage the gangs to use peaceful tactics and negotiation.
Yeah, the main reason I don't like Gang mode is because if you try to be peaceful you just get murdered anyway, either because people joining you are less interested in "fun" and more interested in "being an antagonist," or because the other gangs just kill you on sight. It's a deathmatch, basically, plus Sec and the heads can't really do anything until the gangs start beating each other's heads in, at which point it's too late: most of the station is in a gang and there's 40 CAT DADS assistants kicking in the windows of Sec to get to the tasers.
I don't like the sound of department gangs, because like I complained back when it was getting really heavily played, Gang Leader barman who controls the areas in and around the Botany-Bar region doesn't have a chance in hell against Gang Leader scientist, because bombs and chemicals>weed and fried everything, sad but true. And while forcing them to do peaceful stuff in an attempt to make them trade away their valuable items sounds nice, in practice they'd probably just triple-chem-smoke every other gang and take whatever they need from the ashes.
It would be best if everything was worth points, and there was a natural timer. Something like "Shuttle called due to gang activity hampering productivity" after the 20-30~ minute mark.
Surviving gang members earned you points, surviving leader is points, areas controlled are points, illegal substances teleported offstation using some kind of special cargo transporter are points, etc. Then you could have one 8-guy gang trying to kill all the other ones to win by default, while a 5-guy gang is trying to own the entire station by the time the shuttle leaves, and a third with just 3 guys barricades itself into botany and chemistry and is trying to export 30000 tons of rainbow weed and space drugs. This still doesn't fix the problem of "what the hell are Sec and the heads supposed to do?" but at least it'd be a start.
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I-Sett and Dach I fully agree with you, Gangs in real life don't go out of their to murder other gangs, civilians or Security Officers due to the fact that the retribution would destroy them fully. Sadly the people who play as Gang members treat it like a team death-match mode, who don't think out the fact that them attacking everyone is not a good idea. Gangs in real life cut out their turf, make money, protect their assets, and fight gangs only when they attack first, or if they think it's worth the police breathing down their necks to do it.
I know the idea of Department Gangs can be unbalanced, but if they really do work together giving each other what they need so they don't have to commit suicidal attacks to get what they need all the time we can not only have a good version of gang, it would be the most productive station ever seen to boot. Another factor in this is the fact that the other gangs to be more stronger than them, so if the Engineering Gang sees Research burning Hydroponics down, they decide its the time to wall them all into the fire while they smash Chemistry to bits and tag everything. Hopefully these ideas will actually help the crew understand that this is Gang, not Rev or Team Death-match.
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I like this idea. More passive objectives for gang mode would be interesting. I also found it interesting when an admin eventually told the stats about various gangs during one rounds, I think this should be a coded thing, like a centcom alert, it would give random facts about each gang:
FUZZY HOMOSAPIENS controls 18% of the station
ANGRY GRANDMA'S have attacked 35 players.
CLUELESS MORMONS have a population of 12
RISKY BISCUITS are in possession of 3 security weapons
These stats would shuffle from time to time, but it could let people know who to look out for, it would also help security in some ways too.
On the topic of security as of now there is very little incentive to join security when you could do all the cool shit that the gangs are doing. Security, at least under supervision of a HoS, really only murder if provoked.
I think security should get some cool stuff, to make them more meatier during the round rather than ending in space a large majority of the time. Maybe give them a box of "security goodies" that contains a stimpak, freedom implant, mindslave implant (for making an undercover gang member), w/e. Just something that would give people incetive and make security a little more than cannonfodder against a crew that could kill you and get away with it.
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An Idea for HOS that might fix the security part.
Give him a locker full of "investigation" items, and give the HOS discretion to assign someone as a undercover traitor. The person doing so would still be bound by the rules, but being able to carry (mostly nonfunctional) syndicate items would be neat, and also allow HOS and detective to keep an eye on gangs and other various ne'er do wells. Since HOS has the responsibility to assign a undercover officer/crewmen (or choose to do it themselves, at their own risk), they get some flack if someone does something horrible or stupid. Balancing it by making any traitor items nonfunctional ensures that we aren't giving security traitor gear. E.g Agent card, Voice Changer mask, Perhaps a small pack of syndie cools for emergencies. It would be like a James Bond spy thing for security.
An Alternative option is to give HOS a snitch fund, Crewmen can rat out other potential miscreants for money or leniency.
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Why the fuck would security officers be given syndicate weaponry when even the gangs don't have access to it? Gangs are not affiliated with the Syndicates in any way, just like Wizards or Changelings.
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I'm not saying give sec cyalume sabers, I'm saying let one officer or HOS appointed member of the crew try to either gain a suspected traitors or gang members trust with a few special tools, For example maybe an implant that makes an antagonist believe that other person is traitor, and perhaps will allow the officer to join one gang. A recording wire that could be placed inside a uniform, and sneakily listed in on in HOS's office. Sunglasses with a built in camera, etc.
Sure it's quite possible that officer steve will help some guy set half the station on fire, but it's also possible he'll lead the traitor into a trap assuming he isn't murdered first, which gives them grounds for arrest either way.
I'm saying make security more fun by adding more investigations to it.
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Oh I see, im fine with the idea of Security planting moles into the gangs so they know whats going on. I just had a problem with Security receiving contraband weaponry to do it with.
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I gotta say, i really like most of the ideas you presented Frontline. Especially the way that there should only be a set amount of gangs, one to each section of the station. Reminds me a bit of that CTF mode that nobody uses anymore, but I think it would be a huge improvement on the way that people put lockers out now. I'd like to see every member of a gang have access to the room that the locker spawns in, but I think that would be difficult to do.
I think I'm a bit torn on your suggestion for peaceful goals. Leaving the examples you provided alone, I think it presents an interesting development. It would change being a gangmember from being a pseudo-revolutionary to being more like a "real" gang member. The only problem is that doing such things would take away some of the joy that is brought out of being an antagonist (that is to be able to do whatever the fuck you want). So I'm unsure of how it would go over, not being given a greenlight to start killing other gangs just for joining a gang would change the mode substantially.
I think that idea about the HoS being able to select a mole to infiltrate the gangs just seems like its trying to copy that one time we played Reservoir Dogs. There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it would fit into gang mode. Mostly because you'd only be able to infiltrate one single gang, you can't have 4 officers all infiltrate each gang and nobody walking around as a redshirt obviously. So it's a gamble which gang the mole would join as it would also be kind of dull for the mole. They wouldn't be able to kill any of the gangmembers for no reason like that dirty traitor Mr. Black did, they would mostly just have to watch the gang they infiltrated beat on other gangs and then what? Call security to break up the fight? Arrest them himself? I can't see a viable purpose for allowing sec to join a gang as a mole.
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FrontlineAcrobat4 Wrote:I also agree that the way gangs are played needs to be reworked right now. People join Gangs and act like they are fucking revolutionaries, ignore their gang leader, and just run around killing anyone wearing gang shit, while the rest of his gang gets lynched because of what he did. I suggested that there be five department gangs so the gangs instantly know who they are supposed to work together, and know what their turf is. I also suggested we add peaceful goals to encourage the gangs to use peaceful tactics and negotiation.
I don't really like the idea of adding a ton of coded goals to discourage fighting. It's a goofy mode for people to goof around and/or bust some heads. Also the idea of laying out automatic turfs kinda goes against most of the design ideas for the mode.
Quote:Hopefully these ideas will actually help the crew understand that this is Gang, not Rev or Team Death-match.
You say that like team deathmatch is a bad thing. Where do you think Gangmode came from? It's a gimmickmode combination of Revolution and deathmatch, just the violence part is loosely expected rather than explicity ordered. I'd still like to find some ways to encourage alliances though, I'll try juggling the prompt texts around a bit later. Or maybe make a hints popup for when people join a gang.
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