Borged Traitor = ???

[icarus]

if every time a traitor gets borged they become a syndieborg it's just going to increase the number of times a traitor gets caught and thrown in the disposals grinder

it's encouraged to let traitors keep playing, but borging them won't give them a way to still be in the game, it'll basically give them a free second chance as a traitor.

traitor deaths are going to go up when the only peaceful way to deal with them besides letting them go goes from peaceful to making them potentially more dangerous

[Crumplehat]

There's also the fact that with the stamina system as it is right now, borgs are fucking murdermonsters (probably half the reason this guy is borging himself to murder people).

The trick to being a traitor who was borged is to be a passive-aggressive piece of shit and interpret orders/laws to suit you, not outright go murder a bunch of people. Build rooms in front of the escape pods for "reconstruction" purposes, knowing what people will do on their own. Seal off rooms with the purpose of "redirecting" them or something. Drag gasses through the halls for "resupplies" and look the other way when someone makes off with them. Wander into the AI's core and "forget" to close the doors behind you.

Giving them carte blanche to just act like full blown traitors takes any degree of sneakiness or craftiness out of it. Plus, people are more likely to just call you out on it straight away because get this: people don't like being murdered! Violence is fun but staying alive long enough to participate in said violence is more fun. Getting to come back for more is more fun. Getting killed and getting spaced/gibbed because nobody wants to risk having you come back and kill everyone else is not fun. Death number 1 should be a sign to reconsider tactics.

For instance: I got revived as a wizard once, and retained my magical abilities. I don't know if they thought I wouldn't still be magical or not but I was, and I didn't waste that opportunity by being overt about that fact. I didn't have my robes anyway so until I stole mine back, I just went covert and stole shit off of bodies to resupply, then when my partner wizard died, I stole the body, took their stuff, and was re-wizarded, and went right back to mayhem. Mostly non-lethal mayhem because that round I got super-fucking blindsided in the kitchen because the whole crew had guns already for some reason.

Which brings me back to the "violence is fun" point: Yeah, it's fun, which is why the average crewmembers will jump at any excuse to commit it. So when one borg is acting rogue, they'll assume ALL the borgs are rogue, and despite their protests they will kill the shit out of them.

[ClockworkCupcake]

a neat idea: traitor item that is an implant that makes you into an emagged borg

I'd be in favor of some sort of cheap traitor item that lets you become a syndieborg (not with the usual syndieborg laws I guess) or emagged borg. Maybe have it activate on a trigger like the freedom implant but also activate on death, make it act like nanite-borging when you pop so it's not super obvious?

Basically it'd be great if we could have a way to be traitorborgs without jumping through a dozen hoops (you can buy an emag and mindslave, sure, but that's what - 7 or 8 crystals?) and without as much confusion from players.

[Kaet]

a neat idea: traitor item that is an implant that makes you into an emagged borg

I'd be in favor of some sort of cheap traitor item that lets you become a syndieborg (not with the usual syndieborg laws I guess) or emagged borg. Maybe have it activate on a trigger like the freedom implant but also activate on death, make it act like nanite-borging when you pop so it's not super obvious?

Basically it'd be great if we could have a way to be traitorborgs without jumping through a dozen hoops (you can buy an emag and mindslave, sure, but that's what - 7 or 8 crystals?) and without as much confusion from players.

Emag a roburger to make the nanites emagged nanites that makes emagged borgs?
Or shove the emag in the burger itself and eat it, since making 6 emagged burgs would probably be a bit over powered.

[Paineframe]

How often do dead traitors get cloned? Practically never, because no one's really interested in reviving someone they know is probably going to kill them or blow up their shit. Giving borged traitors an automatic emag or other exemption from the laws just encourages people to not Borg traitors either, so instead of having less fun as a borg they get to have NO fun sitting around as a ghost.

Of course, this guy wasn't a matter of dying and being revived - he was INTENTIONALLY borging himself. Why? Well, I don't know and I wasn't there, but probably because borgs get a lot of advantages over humans and that's probably part of why they're saddled with the laws. Borgs are tougher than humans, immune to heat and cold and space, get all access, have the same door bolting/shocking powers that the AI has. and get overpowered stuff like infinite RCD or infinite patches. From a balance point of view, it really does need to be difficult to turn yourself into an unshackled Borg or else every standard traitor would do it once they've finished placing their bombs.

[bubs]

Idea: A moderately priced implant that acts like soulguard, when the traitor dies they explode into a syndieborg.

[Sundance]

Wasn't around to rebuttal but I am glad there's been some sort of consensus on it. I still believe a round end stat change to emagged/syndicate Borgs would help this issue and catch out assholes like that roburger dude.

Borged traitors aren't 'tamed'. Sometimes thems the breaks. If you get gibbed, spaced, or just generally left to rot, then you've been tamed. Such defeatism.

That said, an "override" implant (as an alternative to the micro bomb) costing just 1 telecrystal would be real cool. The implant are nano machines and dissolve in your body (so roboticsts can't be meta and dig one out at surgery and go "I'm not cloning this dude")
It emags you 2-3 minutes later, and that's it, functions as intended

[KikiMofo]

That said, an "override" implant (as an alternative to the micro bomb) costing just 1 telecrystal would be real cool. The implant are nano machines and dissolve in your body (so roboticsts can't be meta and dig one out at surgery and go "I'm not cloning this dude")
It emags you 2-3 minutes later, and that's it, functions as intended

Yeah this is pretty much what I'd like to see. Seems like a nice addition and something I would use.

[Kovirii]

Idea: A moderately priced implant that acts like soulguard, when the traitor dies they explode into a syndieborg.

http://forum.ss13.co/viewtopic.php?f=6&t...ite#p30168
These could be introduced in general, though I have a feeling that suggesting that emagged implants transform into the syndicate flavor will be shot down.

[bubs]

Ok so yes for the time being it has been agreed that borged traitors should follow their laws. I really think we should get some kind of a traitor item so that traitors can syndieborg themselves or implant them with a thing that makes them go evil IF they get borged, but for now we'll just have to do it this way.

I was asked to state this clearly in the thread.

[Cogwerks]

I didn't realize there was any question over this still. Unless you're emagged or put in a syndieborg suit, you're bound by the AI laws, whatever they may be.
This includes borged traitors. Borged traitors are of course welcome to still be passive-aggressive jerks and try to accomplish their objectives WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THEIR CURRENT LAWS. This may be prohibitively difficult, but whatever, just be happy you even got a second chance and try to roll with the challenge.

On that note, I am still planning to make syndicate borg suits have some special new utilities available, since currently they're kinda worthless.
That implant idea could be neat too. Let's chat about that some more.

[Anticheese]

Perhaps the implant should give you a verb which you can use in life or death to start the process of becoming a syndieborg, maybe with a five-minute timer? If it turned you into a borg immediately on death people would just murder the new bot, and the implant would be worthless. With a timer, that could be avoided while still leaving in an element of risk in the form of passing witnesses.

The transformation should also leave gibs just as the robotic transformation disease does.

[Paineframe]

The first time I rolled nuke op, the other nuke op bought an emag and gave it to me, and asked me to borg him using the borg parts on the syndie shuttle and then immediately emag him (I guess apparently the nuke op borg parts aren't syndieborg, which is weird), which I think is actually a pretty elegant solution - traitors who want to intentionally borg themselves can get exempted from the laws if they spend some telecrystals and get a human helper somehow, but traitors who accidentally die and get an unplanned borging are still bound by the laws. I'm not really a fan of making it easy to make yourself into a traitor borg, because borgs have a lot of danger potential that (I assume) is supposed to be partially counterbalanced by the existence of the laws and the trouble one has to go through to change them, as well as the fact that borgs are just plain unable to do certain things without human help or prior preparation. Letting traitors borg themselves and get automatic law exemption lets them keep all the advantages of being a borg while having the biggest downside removed for free and the second biggest downside substantially mitigated. For something that nice, I feel like requiring human aid is a good hurdle to have to clear, and it's not like having an ally or mindslave isn't useful anyway.

Are syndieborgs really that bad? I've never seen them used, but that's not that strange for a job-specific item. Construction borgs can cause a lot of trouble and Mediborgs can go on a murderous rampage if the crew is too distracted to hunt it down with guns.

[Cogwerks]

Huh. Okay, I think I'll give the nuke shuttle a syndiborg suit or two.

[Clarks]

Are syndieborgs really that bad? I've never seen them used, but that's not that strange for a job-specific item. Construction borgs can cause a lot of trouble and Mediborgs can go on a murderous rampage if the crew is too distracted to hunt it down with guns.

Syndieborgs are fun because the crew usually believe that the AI is rogue, and will go all out murdering the AI and every borg. This kind of confusion makes for great oh, shit! moments, when the hero who murdered the AI figures out he was a chump.

If traitors can purchase a second life borging implant, keep in mind that until soulguard was fixed wizards were routinely gibbed to prevent a respawn. People will go about the most absolutely shitty way to make sure some traitor can't use the implant.
This implant should just make you spawn again in a borg body somewhere without people around. Let's say implanting yourself uploads a backup of your neural net whatever to the syndicate mainframe, and they teleport you down when your flesh body dies. EH.