Borged Traitor = ???

[Sundance]

the people in ooc were upset because they believed the cyborg to be breaking the rules.

If he was on his default laws and wasn't in a syndie suit/emagged, then he was breaking the rules. There's no ambiguity or "confusing outcomes"
He was abusing the whole point of being a cyborg and that is to follow your laws to the best of your ability, not outright ignore them because he was a traitor. He may be 1 in 1000, but with attitudes and opinions that "eh, he's a traitor, let him be" that made up statistic will become less and less until you get alot of borgs breaking their laws just because.
That whole "Eh, traitor, let him be" attitude is great and should be applied to everything imho. Everything but borgs laws, and creepyness/metagaming.
You want more violence, go code a cannon that shoots limbs at people. Don't bend the rules to your leisure.

[bubs]

Sundance I hate to say things like this because it comes off as snarky, but I get to decide what "the rules" are, and you don't, so you can't really tell me what is or isn't against said rules. That being said, I am open to hearing your opinion as to WHY it would be better for them to not be traitors after the fact, and not just you spouting anger.

I have told many players who have asked me in the past that, as far as I'm concerned, they can keep being traitorous. Because it shows them at round end as a syndie borg, I am fine with it and I think it'll be more fun than having them not be able to keep causing shenanigans. I am happy to hear why you think that would be less fun.

[mozi]

i think its dumb

borging a confirmed traitor has long been a 'safe' way to deal with them while letting the player still be part of the round

[mozi]

Sundance I hate to say things like this because it comes off as snarky, but I get to decide what "the rules" are, and you don't, so you can't really tell me what is or isn't against said rules.

we have a big ol thread in secret admin chat for coming to consensus on rules that exists for situations just like this one

[bubs]

yes. we also can talk about it in front of the kids, honey, I want them to hear this.

just because something has always been a certain way is not a good reason to not change or improve something. Sure, it's a good way to "safely" get rid of traitors, but "safely" getting rid of traitors adds another generic boring crew member to the game, whereas accidentally borging a traitor or traitors being borgs or whatever adds more murder and mayhem to the game. I don't see why you think the former is preferable.

[Kaet]

Sundance I hate to say things like this because it comes off as snarky, but I get to decide what "the rules" are, and you don't, so you can't really tell me what is or isn't against said rules. That being said, I am open to hearing your opinion as to WHY it would be better for them to not be traitors after the fact, and not just you spouting anger.

I have told many players who have asked me in the past that, as far as I'm concerned, they can keep being traitorous. Because it shows them at round end as a syndie borg, I am fine with it and I think it'll be more fun than having them not be able to keep causing shenanigans. I am happy to hear why you think that would be less fun.

Theres been a few times I've been borged on purpose as a traitor so that I could more easily finish my objectives. But I did this knowing that I would have to follow the 3 laws.
You can still cause mischief, kill monkeys, other borgs, or even the AI. Just as long as you get creative and never put any humans at risk and follow direct orders when you get them.
And there is a big chance of laws changing, letting you do whatever anyway.
If borged traitors were allowed to just kill people, then it would not only cause massive confusion for everyone, since the borg is not emagged and the laws are fine.
But it would also take away the "safety" in borging traitors after they've been caught. Its just bad times for everyone involved, plus everyone involved in the future.

[mozi]

if they were a traitor and died they 'lost.' do better next time?

[bubs]

what if a traitor wants to be a borg, also why do we have to so strictly define something as "losing"? that's pretty unnecessarily rigid, life isn't all about winning and losing maaan.

[bubs]

If borged traitors were allowed to just kill people, then it would not only cause massive confusion for everyone, since the borg is not emagged and the laws are fine.

That's why I said they should turn into syndieborgs. also how is it any more confusing than an emagged borg, you can't tell a borg is emagged by looking at it, can you? And as far as I know borgs with traitor brains show up as traitors at the end of the round.

[Haine]

That's why I said they should turn into syndieborgs. also how is it any more confusing than an emagged borg, you can't tell a borg is emagged by looking at it, can you? And as far as I know borgs with traitor brains show up as traitors at the end of the round.

Emagged borgs actually have a little spark animation that shows up on them every few seconds. Syndieborgs, I believe, just don't show up on the robotics control computer, but are visually the same.

[Spy_Guy]

what if a traitor wants to be a borg, also why do we have to so strictly define something as "losing"? that's pretty unnecessarily rigid, life isn't all about winning and losing maaan.

If a traitor wants to be a borg there are ways for them to emag themselves with adequate prep work.

I don't like playing to win by any stretch and I do clone traitors on occasion, but sometimes I prefer not having a person around that might stab me in the back while I'm doing science. So I borg them, thinking that I'd rather have a perfectly normal member of crew as opposed to a ghost.
They get to fuss around doing borg things instead of merely ghosting, and there's every chance they end up getting roped into some other traitor's schemes and get another chance at getting their crime on.

On top of this I think it would cause problems for the other cyborgs if a non-emagged borg were to disobey their current set of laws as someone will invariably declare "BORGS ARE ROGUE" and all of a sudden they are fair game to every shit with a flash, a fire extinguisher and a chip on their shoulder and there is not a thing they can do about it.
There's also the issue of a subverted borg ignoring its OneHuman law just because it happened to be a traitor. I like to forcibly borg people if I crime (reasonably) safe in the knowledge that any animosity they might feel will have to be suppressed on account of their laws.

In short, I feel cyborgs should be obligated to follow their laws, regardless of what they were in life.

[bubs]

yeah ok that sounds pretty good to me. I didn't know that emagged borgs were sparky or that syndieborgs looked the same.

[Dabir]

what if a traitor wants to be a borg, also why do we have to so strictly define something as "losing"? that's pretty unnecessarily rigid, life isn't all about winning and losing maaan.

Being a borg means following the laws, if you want to be a borg then you're implicitly OK with that, if you want to be a subverted borg traitors have plenty of ways to get the AI subverted beforehand.

[Clarks]

There are too few actual syndieborgs. They are fun as heck, and the confusion over whther the AI is rogue is amusing.
If a traitor gets to continue as a borg what's the actual problem, they can't be your tame pet?

Traitor rounds are few and far between, getting to continue treason in a borg body is far better than being relegated to second rate non lethal gimmick. There is every other round for that.

There's a terrible mindset that too many traitors ruin people's game. But when traitors are caught they get murdered or declawed. Being a tamed traitor is NOT FUN.
No wonder everyone buys microbombs.

[bubs]

a neat idea: traitor item that is an implant that makes you into an emagged borg