It's that time of they year when we rant about security.

[KikiMofo]

I feel as though there are two groups of people promoting a false dichotomy.

You don't need to kill every traitor you get your hands on, but traitors should never feel entitled to be let go when they get caught.

I seem to always get situations as an HoS where a traitor screams at me for 15 minutes for catching him and taking more time than usual to get to the brig like I'm their butler, then whines that their "timer" should be up by now and thus should be let go.

Just harm baton those jerks some and then let them go limping to medbay.

[Karakoran]

I don't actually see anything glaringly wrong with Security right now. I guess I'd like to see a few extra shots in the tasers and maybe have Security get a riot shotgun (just one for the entire department with ammo in the Sec Dispensers. That way they'd have a bit more capability against Lings and such). A lot of the things I dislike, like how Security basically has to get close to someone to incapacitate them, are understandable. Security rarely acts badly these days either. Even proven traitors can get off with just confiscated gear, a promise not to do it again, and a 1:30 in the brig. Grief against Security is also almost gone. It's no longer the days when I had to fight through a sea of gray-shirts to get some vicious serial killer into the brig. It's actually pretty nice. They're non-lethal enough to deal with shitlords, but can break open the armory if an actual threat like a Syndicate Agent or a Wizard shows up.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Sundance]

So I made a second stab at "enemy" chart.
I've removed all my personal ideals behind security, such as letting peeps live. Instead i've put some general tips when dealing with antagonists so security aren't guaranteed death, but don't look like assholes in the process. Basically the idea behind the chart is to show that's there more enemies than just the antagonists, encouraging security to use their head when dealing with jerks. Please let me know if there's something irking you about it, so I can change it. http://wiki.ss13.co/User:Sundance
For those wondering where the not so obvious blue links go, "idiot" goes to dumb pubbies, "a step too far" goes to griefing, and "stupid" goes to microbombs.

[Sundance]

As per usual, the image gets cut off. R-click and view image if you haven't figured that out by now

[Lavastage]

Sec Guide stuff

It might be good to note that though wizards usually rampage, some wizards end up being docile/creating fun, so taking them out isn't exactly high on the priority list if they are.
I know this is your project don't yell at me please

[Sundance]

Sure.
But that'd be encouraging wizards to be docile, when in reality wizards shouldn't be really passive. It has been concluded in another thread that passive wiz's are boring.
I put them on the medium list for the fact that often wizards may be passive in the fact that they mightn't be harming anybody, instead causing mayhem like spawning booze golems and cluwning people.

[Sundance]

Actually I rejigged it to your response.
http://wiki.ss13.co/User:Sundance
Check yourself before you shrek yourself.

[KikiMofo]

I've learned never to be nice to wizards. Every time I'm nice to one they kill me the only times I have lived against a wizard are the times when I've shot first and talked to them once they are dead.

[Cogwerks]

I think the enemy chart should omit those crosshairs, they make it look visually messy.

Taser nerf has just been mostly reverted. I'd be super appreciative if you folks could get some willing volunteers, various armors, and stimulating drugs together and do some live-fire taser testing. I can sorta test it locally, but player feedback under combat conditions will be a lot more helpful.

Originally tasers decayed really, really slowly, had 20 power and could potentially apply 20 units of stun - which lasts fuckin' forever. My taser nerf changed it to a tiered thing- first shot confuses, second shot slows, third stuns, fourth weakens (floors.)

This was a bad approach, sorry.

Here's a new approach:

Code:

/datum/projectile/energy_bolt
    name = "energy bolt"
    icon = 'projectiles.dmi'
    icon_state = "spark"
//How much of a punch this has
    power = 20
//How fast the power goes away, per tile traveled
    dissipation_rate = 3
//How many tiles till it starts to lose power
    dissipation_delay = 1

Code:

//snippet of bullet_act code on humans
        //projectile stun variable is pretty much just the projectile power
            var/adjusted_stun = (stun/armor_value_bullet)/4 // adjust as needed i guess
            src.confused += adjusted_stun
            src.slowed += adjusted_stun
            src.stunned += adjusted_stun
            src.weakened += adjusted_stun

[Cogwerks]

REGARDING MURDA:
Way back in early SS13 design documents, security wasn't meant to have the authority to kill people. Guards were only meant to have the authority to detain people, executions required station head approval and guards who violated that could be arrested as murderers. Obviously this doesn't often work out that way.

You can however totally arrest or fire guards who kill people without a good reason. Same goes for vigilantes. Murder is murder, murdering someone for trespassing or having illegal items is a pretty shitty way to play the game. Traitors are fair game to kill as far as the game rules go, but don't just take a vigilante's word for it if you catch them bashing someone's skull in. It's trivially easy to get away with murder as a traitor by pretending to be a vigilante, thanks to this dumb aspect of player culture.

I think it's better to restore order and promote safety than to just go around removing people from the round whenever you think you can get away with it.

Good in-game reasons to kill someone: they're too dangerous to capture or they keep being an escalating threat after capture. Armed rampaging jerks shooting at you, obvious mass-murderers, abominations, nuke ops, mad bombers (if they're not putting in any effort to be fun), wizards, changelings, consistently trying to start riots, they're attacking you with clearly lethal intent and you don't have a safe way to deter them, etc. Use some discretion. If it's possible to capture them, I think it's best to prioritize that.

If someone is obviously bad at fighting, they're pursuing their goals non-violently, or they've committed some violence and murder but have been safely captured and searched, I don't think there's really any point in killing them. It's kinda creepy how much some guards used to enjoy performing executions.

Some of my most fun rounds as a guard or captain have involved being polite to captured traitors. Confiscate their weapons, lecture them about workplace safety, brig them for whatever crimes they actually committed, then release them and keep an eye on them. Offer counseling. Share a donut. Chat with them in the brig. Bullshit around. Keep your distance but don't rush to remove them from the round if it seems like they'll play along in a fun way. The traitors who got that treatment were thrilled about it and ended the round with a bunch of fun stories to tell.

If they just scream obscenities and keep trying to kill you, welp, airlock 'em or straight-jacket them and send them off to the test chamber for horrible experiments.

Vigilantes: obvious traitors are fair game as far as the rules go, but if you break into the brig to murder a captured traitor or you're caught cutting someone down with a sword or gun, you'd better not fuckin' cry to adminhelp when the guards arrest you. If you try to start an assistant revolution after you get busted for being a violent jerk, welp, fuck right off.

[Sundance]

I think the enemy chart should omit those crosshairs, they make it look visually messy

noted

As regards to the stun, I'd like to see the way stun guns work IRL apply to how players are stunned.
For example when you get shot with a taser, most often people turn into a spazzing mess, limbs flying all over the place. It doesn't disable all their nerves bar the lungs and the vocal cords to scream obscenities. People can still grab things if they fall to the ground, knives, guns, etc. This is how I think tasers should work:

1st shot:
A) From a distance: Slows down the target somewhat. Handy for when you're chasing someone.
B) Up close: Slows down the target considerably, to a walk perhaps. Better up close when your target is probably armed.
C) Point-blank: Target flips, and gets briefly stunned with attributes from 2nd shot. Best to keep numb with the stun baton afterwards.

2nd shot:
A) From a distance: Applies a "numb" attribute. The numb attribute is different to a stun, which would still be present in the stun baton. The numb attribute causes the target to randomly drop what they are holding, and randomly trip (exactly like getting pushed over). Tripping on the ground, you can still pick up things and possibly shoot them as it's because it's similar to being pushed over, but you may drop it if the RNG causes you to drop what your holding.
B) Up close: Increases the frequency of the twitching and tripping.
C) Point-blank: Same as point-blank from 1st shot.

This change would make tasers alot more useful, but alot different. Stun/flash would be used in conjuction with it, tasers incapacitating targets prior. It doesn't nerf the taser, it changes how you are stunned. The stun giving the target some windows of opportunity to perhaps pick up that revolver as he trips and falls to the ground. It would make fire-fights more interesting, and the 1st shot would actually serve purpose, as it would decrease the targets chance of escaping. Eh, my 2c.

[mozi]

i am content with the current state of security and find sec's arsenal sufficient

[Silvercloud29]

I think the new stungun update makes them a lot more useful. I just wish they fired more then like 5 shots before needing to be recharged.... Maybe have a recharge kit that can give you 2 recharges on the go before it needs to be recharged itself. Like a portable battery that you connect out in the hall and it charges your gun for you quickly and you put it back in your pack when your done.

[Marquesas]

I'd just like to put this out there. I do not agree with the return of the instant-stun tasers. That is all.

And I actually agree with Sundance for once.

[mozi]

sundance has lots of good ideas