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[MERGED PR] Disables antag captains on classic
I honestly had zero clue this was even a thing on classic. sounds like a nightmare, definitely on board with removing it.
I am neutral towards this change since captain antags in my experience are mostly tame. However if somehow this change passes I strongly suggest giving captain access to security gear considering their position in the chain of command.
I'd love to see this testmerged for a few days to see how it feels
I'm still very much against Sec Captain same as I would be against Sec HoP. Don't need super cops. The Egun for captain is basically just there because he's a very tasty target for antags. Needs to be able to protect himself.
ive said before in the questionable suggestion thread but ill post it here. i think captain being able to be antag but having it be really rare would be cute. so that its like, an actual twist when the leader of the ship is an antag vs just a constant thing that can happen.

also maybe have there be less other traitors when theres a traitor captain cause they are pretty overpowered
For the sake of fun, I don't think the antagonists should be captain, of the tools the antag captain has (egun, armor, AA, teleporter) and so on, its more the combination of them all. an antag with AA is bad. an antag with a gun is bad. an antag with the hand tele is bad. an antag with sec access is bad. an antag with all of these is very bad. the combination of these things makes dealing with an antag captain frustrating, and just not fun. not every change needs to be made in the name of balance, and not all changes need to be made in the name of fun, but this is a change that should probably be made in the name of fun.
I still think this is all just overreaction. Captain doesn't get antag that often. Most of the times people have problems with captain getting antagged is because they got mindhacked.
(12-31-2023, 04:19 PM)KikiMofo Wrote: I still think this is all just overreaction. Captain doesn't get antag that often. Most of the times people have problems with captain getting antagged is because they got mindhacked.

Agreed. This feels like a nothingburger. We now have an extra secoff with AA. Maybe cap traitor could spawn with half the TC? I dunno, really not in favor of this
Well looks like it was called, Cap is no longer antag, but just as their are low effort Antags everywhere, there are high effort ones. The Captain being such a primary role is in the best position to do very wild gimmicks.

I've made everyone captain, started a cloning farm, paid for my own private security out of staffies etc. It'll be just a little less fun to play without that sort of chaos. And perhaps just the motivation I needed to investigate other servers for different fun.

This server has been a nice introduction to Space Station 13 though. Thanks for that, may you continue limited shenanigans.
The final evolution of secHOP, hosCAP.
(12-31-2023, 06:16 PM)Sbmhawk Wrote: TheĀ  final evolution of secHOP, hosCAP.

Pretty much
(12-31-2023, 04:19 PM)KikiMofo Wrote: I still think this is all just overreaction. Captain doesn't get antag that often. Most of the times people have problems with captain getting antagged is because they got mindhacked.

kneejerk feelycraft thread #34847
There seems to be some people upset at how this happened.

But let's be real for one moment.
From all the other heads (besides HoS) do you think has the best tools to antag?
HoP can get AA like the cap easily, but lacks the armor and weapon.
Chief Engineer gets a fancy belt and rebuilder, but lacks AA and a good weapon.
Research Director gets all science access and can make bombs and use telesci, but lacks armor and AA.
Medical Director ... well they are probably the weakest of the antags as head.

The Captain has not only "No real permanent station" , but also them wandering around and doing stuff is never seen as supicious.
Add a gun and armor and security access... suddenly it becomes a HUGE problem to deal with.
A HoP with AA is also annoying to deal with...but if you see a HoP in security you will probably: *Raise eyebrow*
Captain in security? Nothing odd there.

That said outright disabling them I do not fully agree with. I am fine with them being possible antagonists, just not TRAITORS

So what antagonists can the captain be?
- Sleeper agent.
- Hardmode Traitor.

That's it. Nothing else. Hardmode traitor so they can't get extra tools that will make rampaging captains more frequent. And sleeper agent since there is nothing funnier then a captain mid round turning from helpful mchelperson to "Demolition expert"

As for saying: "But they just get mindhacked alot"
Yea I am fine with that....
But if they rampage a lot as a mindhacked person... then traitor ones are 10 times worst.
also for my actual opinion:

rolling traitor/antag captain is one of the best feelings in the world. it's like rolling traitor but double. there's nothing quite as lucky as having rolled the jackpot. that said, it's nested in quite a bit of rng. i don't think removing this would add anything really, and if you see some jackass spawncamping just be sure to ahelp it. i get that its frustrating in the moment but really if they weren't captain they probably would have found some other way of doing it
I still say any antagonist detective is much more powerful due to being the only one messing with security records from a safe distance and having infrareds from the getgo.

But.. the problem remains that the captain should be on the trustworthier end. And traitor captain yea... can do much worst then detective antag in the 1st 10 mins.
The problem is.... with any heads in that matter. "Subsume AI and borgs as allies."
That alone gives a headache.. but what makes it worst is that the captain just simply goes ham much faster due to being combat ready.
The captain can grab his gun, rush to the AI, install traitor law and then start murdering people while security barely had time to leave their department and get equipped.
And if the AI is smart.. they would bolt in security too.

And considering the complaint is: "Everytime a captain goes antag they rampage" is wrong, but still... on that note alone I would not do it.

It's the fact what the captain is suppose to stand for. A player who has 20 rounds under their belts and can be captain as a trustworthy figure.
But if they keep going on a rampage cause: "I HIT THE JACKPOT LETS GOOOOO!"
Then yea... I would forbid it or limit it.

And you are right.. if they would wanna rampage they would do it another way. But that takes time and preparition to rampage like a captain.

You might say it's a reward for being prepared. While traitor captains are just lucky.
What's more fun in a rampaging traitor? Taking their time to gather their stuff for their plan? Or "they are the captain and can rampage from the 1st second?"

Anyway I added enough to the discussion. I still think antagonist captains are fine, but at the moment I can see why it's a problem and why RP got rid of it 1st.

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