Clarification on Miscreants

[Infinite Monkeys]

I was just a traitor that got fucked by a miscreant because his miscreant job was

(whocares) was a miscreant!
Objective: Kidnap a non-human and hold it to ransom.

I didn't care until I found out they didn't even know I was a traitor and now I care even more that his job wasn't even to steal a human. I have decided they suck

So what you're saying is he completely ignored his objective and caused harm to a person. Did you adminhelp? People being twats isn't the fault of the system and it happens without it too!

[Klayboxx]

I was just a traitor that got fucked by a miscreant because his miscreant job was

(whocares) was a miscreant!
Objective: Kidnap a non-human and hold it to ransom.

I didn't care until I found out they didn't even know I was a traitor and now I care even more that his job wasn't even to steal a human. I have decided they suck

So what you're saying is he completely ignored his objective and caused harm to a person. Did you adminhelp? People being twats isn't the fault of the system and it happens without it too!

I talked to him and he didn't even realize it said non-human. I'm not mad at the specific dude, it just goes to show what the miscreant objectives lead to. Peoples rounds will be ruined because someone is doing what they're supposed to do and you as the victim don't even find it fun because they aren't even a traitor.

[Sundance]

Yeah I totally didn't mean for this to be a whistle blowing/debbie downer thread, I only wanted to know what the whole deal with it was.
I really like the idea of miscreants, but I think saying "ok, time to misbehave, but not too much or you'll get banned!" is a bit farfetched. I know the peeps in the forum/mentors would know better and understand the boundaries, but that's not everyone for sure.

Suggestion 1 (The important one!)
-->When I first heard this being introduced I thought this was going to be another traitor mode, like a traitor lite or something. Remove all "don't misbehave too much" bull, that's just not going to work, people aren't going to listen, and it's going to lead to bans to players that are otherwise good.
-->Have them be a traitor with no tools, and give them funky freeform objectives (this has already been done, i'm glad, but we could use more!).
-->Equalize this now with the traitors if this hasn't been done already. If you don't know what I mean by this, I mean if there was 8 traitors in a round, instead of adding miscreants on-top of that, lower the traitor count to make way for them, so like 5 traitors and 3 miscreants. You dig?

Suggestion 2 (Feel free to add!)
Objective wise (I don't know the full list ofc) having it free-form allows for alot, and removing the "No killing/blowing up/w.e" thing would diversify it even further.
You could have:
--> Organize a drug ring (already a thing)
--> Organize an illegal insurance group
--> Organize a gun smuggling scheme
--> Organize a secret police
--> Organize a revolution (it will fail terribly, but you might get a traitor on board with mind-slave implants!)
or
--> Sabotage the engine/bridge/chemlab/bar
--> Be terrible at your job (already a thing)
--> Block off the north side of the station from the south side
--> Corrupt the AI to act incoherent to the crew
OR (nastier objectives)
--> Hold the [insert head here] at ransom, attempt to extract money (nothing stopping you from blowing up the captain afterwards)
--> Infiltrate security, act as an officer, be awful
--> Spike all the medicine in medbay
--> Become a vigilante, target traitors and security alike
--> Murder a player, frame another crew member for said murder
--> Practice Paganism, do sacrifices.
--> Attempt to completely eradicate the bridge/science sector/escape arm

[Chike101]

Yeah I totally didn't mean for this to be a whistle blowing/debbie downer thread, I only wanted to know what the whole deal with it was.
I really like the idea of miscreants, but I think saying "ok, time to misbehave, but not too much or you'll get banned!" is a bit farfetched. I know the peeps in the forum/mentors would know better and understand the boundaries, but that's not everyone for sure.

Suggestion 1 (The important one!)
-->When I first heard this being introduced I thought this was going to be another traitor mode, like a traitor lite or something. Remove all "don't misbehave too much" bull, that's just not going to work, people aren't going to listen, and it's going to lead to bans to players that are otherwise good.
-->Have them be a traitor with no tools, and give them funky freeform objectives (this has already been done, i'm glad, but we could use more!).
-->Equalize this now with the traitors if this hasn't been done already. If you don't know what I mean by this, I mean if there was 8 traitors in a round, instead of adding miscreants on-top of that, lower the traitor count to make way for them, so like 5 traitors and 3 miscreants. You dig?

Suggestion 2 (Feel free to add!)
Objective wise (I don't know the full list ofc) having it free-form allows for alot, and removing the "No killing/blowing up/w.e" thing would diversify it even further.
You could have:
--> Organize a drug ring (already a thing)
--> Organize an illegal insurance group
--> Organize a gun smuggling scheme
--> Organize a secret police
--> Organize a revolution (it will fail terribly, but you might get a traitor on board with mind-slave implants!)
or
--> Sabotage the engine/bridge/chemlab/bar
--> Be terrible at your job (already a thing)
--> Block off the north side of the station from the south side
--> Corrupt the AI to act incoherent to the crew
OR (nastier objectives)
--> Hold the [insert head here] at ransom, attempt to extract money (nothing stopping you from blowing up the captain afterwards)
--> Infiltrate security, act as an officer, be awful
--> Spike all the medicine in medbay
--> Become a vigilante, target traitors and security alike
--> Murder a player, frame another crew member for said murder
--> Practice Paganism, do sacrifices.
--> Attempt to completely eradicate the bridge/science sector/escape arm

Traitors should have these objectives, IMO.
I know, Miscreants aren't traitors, but traitors SHOULD get gimmicky objectives like this. Would make "LOLO IM TATER, LETS SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE I CAN SLAUGHTER" less frequent, because everybody knows 'Start a Drug Ring' is more enticing than 'Steal 5 Helmets'.

[icarus]

i know whitelists are lame but only letting people who have shown they can do this kind of stuff without being shit or a griefer would both curb the problem and reward players who regularly make rounds fun

a good testing ground for who gets on the list would be those rounds we do occasionally where people are given creative objectives instead of traitor ones

[Kaet]

i know whitelists are lame but only letting people who have shown they can do this kind of stuff without being shit or a griefer would both curb the problem and reward players who regularly make rounds fun

a good testing ground for who gets on the list would be those rounds we do occasionally where people are given creative objectives instead of traitor ones

I dont think taking something intended as fun away from people is the way to deal with it being used wrongly.
Once people understand the idea behind the miscreants we'll see a whole less terrible things going on where people think they are ok doing it when they are not.

The way I understand it is that if you are a miscreant then you have to misbehave in the specific way of the objective?
So even though some miscreant objectives say to open all doors on the station, if your mission is to be a drug lord, then opening all the doors is a bad thing to do.
Is that how it is? Or is the miscreant allowed to do petty crime and only fear the wrath of security?

And I agree with Sundance that the traitor miscreant ratio should be dependent on eachother. Maybe even have miscreants be more likely to be a late joiner thing than traitor.
Since late joining traitors are much more likely to just say "screw the objectives, I have no time for those." and go on a rampage.

[Captain_Bravo]

I'm just going to chime in here by saying that I really like both the idea, and the implementation of Miscreants. Sure, dumb pieces of shit are going to be dumb pieces of shit, but nine times out of ten they would be dumb pieces of shit anyway. Somebody setting shit on fire, killing people, spacing dudes, that's obviously not in the spirit of being a miscreant. I, personally, have not encountered any of those issues so far. But, hopefully within a couple days they will iron themselves out.

Either way, I think this is a good idea that could lead to a lot of fun, once people feel out exactly how the interaction between crew/security/miscreants/traitors are supposed to work.

[atomic1fire]

White lists might be a "not terrible" terrible idea just because I think Miscreants is something with "good players" in mind.

Someone who can take a role and make it the special kind of "Hilarious" that the miscreant role needs.

HOS is admin approval only because you need someone to set a "good example" for security and because they have access to the armory, which means it's their job to not be unfun with it.

If Miscreants becomes so terrible that it needs to be removed, I'd rather it be whitelisted for good players only, primarily because I think some players deserve the recognition.

If a miscreant is being awful just for the sake of being awful, that's just rude.

Miscreant isn't traitor and as such they have a bit less freedom to screw around and be a jerk.

I do think more freeform objectives for traitors would be nice.

e.g " enlist crewmen for a hiest and steal the captain's antique gun"

"Frame another crewmen for a really awful crime"

"Make a complicated and villainous plan and actually do it, then brag about it over OOC"

"Create a supervillain identity and be the most evil person on the station"

[VictorMAngoStein]

I dont think taking something intended as fun away from people is the way to deal with it being used wrongly.

Victor Mangostein grunts but nothing happens...

[ThoseDernSquirrels]

I dont think taking something intended as fun away from people is the way to deal with it being used wrongly.

Victor Mangostein grunts but nothing happens...

;-;7 never forget