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+--- Thread: Clarification on Miscreants (/showthread.php?tid=1775)
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Clarification on Miscreants - Sundance - 11-04-2013
I have a few question's on the new miscreant objectives, as when I raised a few questions on OOC, nobody was really able to answer it..
1.What do miscreant objectives entail?
Not a full list, just a few examples. I ask this because I got a miscreant objective as the HoS, which was steal a non-assistant ID. The first thing that stood out was "welp, i'm a hos, why do I have an option of being shit", the second thought was "This is already a non-miscreant objective the staff assistant gets"
2.Are miscreants balanced out with traitors?
As in has the traitor count been reduced somewhat to make way for people with miscreant objectives?
If they have not, I'll be the first to say that they should. A miscreant even if they are being a major nuisance, are still something that security/the crew will have to deal with, and having that on their plate on-top of the traitor count, is quite frankly a tad bit unfair. That, and while a miscreant may not be a traitor themselves, they will be most definitely helping a traitor inadvertently by fucking with the crew.
3.Just how far can you take it as a miscreant?
The changelog states: "Miscreants ARE NOT TRAITORS for the purposes of the rules, so no murdering etc. but feel free to hack doors, steal stuff and generally be a nuisance"
One dude who clearly was a miscreant set the pool on fire with a plasma canister. This heated the air to the corridor adjacent to the pool and 1 or 2 peeps died. After arresting him and a short brigging, he came back and hacked all the doors of sec open, let off a n20 canister, so we arrested him again. Then after that he set medbay on fire.
I'm aware that while he thought he was being a nuisance, he might as well as been a traitor. I ain't no admin, but I can imagine this will be frustrating when these grey lines start appearing.
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - CaptainBravo - 11-04-2013
Sundance Wrote:1.What do miscreant objectives entail?
Not a full list, just a few examples. I ask this because I got a miscreant objective as the HoS, which was steal a non-assistant ID. The first thing that stood out was "welp, i'm a hos, why do I have an option of being shit", the second thought was "This is already a non-miscreant objective the staff assistant gets"
the assistant objective requires the ID to have your name on it(or maybe to be your starting ID, just with more access? either way the flavor text is "assigned to you"). you can't go steal some random guy's ID to complete it(unless that guy is the HoP).
"don't kill people" isn't ambiguous. if people can't handle stopping short of murder, maybe they should fuck off.
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - herpmcderp - 11-04-2013
CaptainBravo Wrote:s"
the assistant objective requires the ID to have your name on it(or maybe to be your starting ID, just with more access? either way the flavor text is "assigned to you"). you can't go steal some random guy's ID to complete it(unless that guy is the HoP).
"don't kill people" isn't ambiguous. if people can't handle stopping short of murder, maybe they should fuck off.[/quote]
that is a normal crew objective also it is broken so its completed even if you have a staff assistant id assigned to you
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - mozi - 11-04-2013
this is a terrible idea
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - ISaidNo - 11-04-2013
it's an ok idea on paper but i don't think it's panning out well
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - Klayboxx - 11-04-2013
Yeah I've had my rounds completely ruined by miscreants instead of giggling about all the goofy stuff their doing. It's like being griefed by a dumb pubbie except it's OK.
I've only had one good experience with a miscreant and that was when I was a HoS and he stunned me, took my beret and melted it - and left. I went into grieving and wore all black and a paper hat to cope with the loss of my best friend, and he had the nerve to come back and stun me yet again but this time instead of settling with destroying my pride, he used stable mutagen to switch names with me, so I became him and him me. Then he left me sobbing in the bathroom and went and died without letting anyone know. I even made a bomb with his name on it and screamed for him to come back and fight like a man but I was crying to the ether.
It was really fun.
I think the biggest problem is most people who roll miscreant aren't creative and just do generic traitor stuff without the killing. They're super hard to deal with as security because there isn't anything you can really take away from them that makes them less potent, so you pretty much have to let them go after searching them and a short brigging. They also seem like the usual turds so you feel hesitant to perma-brig them or execute them because you are worried that an admin will intervene because WELP THEY AREN'T ACTUALLY A BAD GUY!
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - Infinite Monkeys - 11-04-2013
Redid all the miscreant objectives to be untrackable stuff like 'start a drug ring', 'be as incompetant as possible at your job without getting killed' etc. These are intended as suggestions for fun mischief you could get up to, rather than proper objectives. Maybe this will work better?
To clarify:
You are a normal crew member as far as the rules go. You can do anything that isn't bannable - breaking into places etc - but nothing bannable including murder, releasing plasma, whatever.
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - Daeren - 11-04-2013
I'm going to say straight up that I think miscreants are a really bad idea that only encourages really awful play. The only times I've seen miscreants doing anything worth noticing it's because I have to yell at someone over it. The concept of incentivizing jail time and non-murder punishments for criminal behavior by making some incidents of it non-traitory is fine, until it starts to pan out in play. To players, they look like under-equipped traitors if they're doing violent things (and are thus killed), awful players (in which case they're 'accidentally' hurled out the airlock or stuffed into the brig forever), or people itching for a ban (because their goals entail griefing despite IM saying he'd ban you for griefing as a miscreant). To admins, we're torn between punishing people for overstepping boundaries that are only half there, or keeping our hands off and watching security rip itself apart over a nonissue and get a bucket of adminhelps. Not to mention the conception "oh, he's probably a miscreant" making "oh he's probably a traitor" syndrome even worse - the ignoring or excusing of awful behavior, assuming the player is in the right, only to find out at the end of the round that they weren't. They often complain in OOC but don't always adminhelp, which leads to the player getting away with stupid bullshit again.
I like the idea of giving security more crimes to deal with, or trying to dial back the usual first response from "murder or gib", but I haven't seen anything good coming out of this.
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - Infinite Monkeys - 11-04-2013
Like I just said all the objectives were massively changed, at least give it a few rounds. It's not 'overstepping a boundary', if they break the ordinary rules that normal players are subject to then ban them as you would a normal player!
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - mozi - 11-04-2013
i am giving this a bit of a second thought and I would be okay with it if we were allowed to crack down on anyone who was boring or using miscreant status to cause grief unrelated to their gimmick
the flipside being that if you are sufficiently amusing or playing your role really well we'd kinda look the other way if you were being a shithead. so like.. you earn the privilege of being a humongous jerk. without having to go through the hos application process ho ho
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - Klayboxx - 11-04-2013
I was just a traitor that got fucked by a miscreant because his miscreant job was
(whocares) was a miscreant!
Objective: Kidnap a non-human and hold it to ransom.
I didn't care until I found out they didn't even know I was a traitor and now I care even more that his job wasn't even to steal a human. I have decided they suck
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - Klayboxx - 11-04-2013
I was just a traitor that got fucked by a miscreant because his miscreant job was
(whocares) was a miscreant!
Objective: Kidnap a non-human and hold it to ransom.
I didn't care until I found out they didn't even know I was a traitor and now I care even more that his job wasn't even to steal a human. I have decided they suck
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - Spy_Guy - 11-04-2013
Klayboxx Wrote:I was just a traitor that got fucked by a miscreant because his miscreant job was
(whocares) was a miscreant!
Objective: Kidnap a non-human and hold it to ransom.
I didn't care until I found out they didn't even know I was a traitor and now I care even more that his job wasn't even to steal a human. I have decided they suck
Yeah, good grief, that was awful. I tagged along with it because I was a miscreant too, so I figured if it was his objective to kidnap a person, I could fulfil mine by leaving passive-aggressive ransom notes. First of all he was being way too brutal, then it turns out you were a traitor.
Come the end of round and his objective is to steal a non-human. Dear god, I felt awful.
Really sorry I was a part of that happening to you.
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - Readster - 11-05-2013
I think the biggest problem here is the mindset. People are thinking of miscreants as 'lesser traitors' which just isn't true. Miscreants are just a regular crew member with an objective encouraging mischievous behaviour. Like with the changed objectives IM added, if you're a miscreant with the objective to 'be as bad at your job as possible without getting killed', you shouldn't go around fucking with security and hacking into places really.
Or at least that's my take on the whole thing. :/
Re: Clarification on Miscreants - volundr - 11-05-2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
If we tell them to be shit, they'll be shit.