make the HoS app easier/simpler/trial hos rounds

[Wisecrack34]

Change coder names to Rainbow and give Sec a lighter pink that looks kinda white

[OMJ]

personally i think giving HoSes a big red font would be kinda sorta elitist, not really a fan of that- but I don't think it's a bad idea. as long as I can switch to mentor purple whenever

[Melanie Blowfist]

Hi friends

I have some thoughts that i'd like to share. I am entirely against gatekeeping the HoS role, but thinking about what makes a good HoS and what i'd like to see in one makes me think there may be other ways in which we could open up the role to more new people.

For me the most important thing about the HoS is having the right attitude- not getting upset easily, knowing when to let an antagonist go free and when its time to have a trial (always!). I'm definitely not very skilled mechanically, and I dont think I was whitelisted because I'm successful at catching criminals. I think its because I try to be friendly and helpful and just in general aim to create a fun atmosphere (although we all know how hard that can be). But I also remember and notice the other sec people who I think have good attitudes or are good fits for the role. I remember my interactions as i'm sure a lot of other players on this station do, and everybody remembers the time a security officer was awful to them and spaced them, but we also notice and remember the good officers.

So I have two thoughts that I think could help encourage us to see more people in the role:

1. Emphasise mechanical abilty and robustess less in applications- being able to manage your fellow officers and the crew imo is the real challenge of the role. I think many people (myself included) hesistated for a long time because they're not confident in their mechanical abilities.

2. Have a process for nominating people. I think the trial HoS rounds OMJ is doing is a great start, but I would like to a change in the dynamic where both HoS's and admins can be more proactive in getting people to apply. I didnt apply for a long time because nobody had told me I should. especially with the 'recommended by' part of the form- its daunting! Perhaps we could add that not being recommended wont damage your application? Its rare for people to really say 'you were a good secman that round' and even rarer for them to say you should apply for HoS!

I would also like to argue against incentivising the role- its a hard role, you are under scrutiny all the time but I dont want people to apply because of a reward, I want the fun and friendly officers to apply, because they're a good fit for the role

well thanks for listening

[KikiMofo]

An HoS leads in front. Not from the back as a manager. We already saw what happens when an HoS just shoves the officers out in front. OMJ specifically saw what happens when you give the beret to someone like that.

[OMJ]

An HoS leads in front. Not from the back as a manager. We already saw what happens when an HoS just shoves the officers out in front. OMJ specifically saw what happens when you give the beret to someone like that.

There are many different managerial styles as HoS- someone who wants to stay behind and coordinate like that isn’t a bad thing. The trial HoS round I did in that scenario just happened to be a reprehensible dickhead with a vapid execution. His attitude wasn’t the right one. He was in it to power trip.

I’ve done that a few rounds when we’re super staffed & it doesn’t end poorly usually. The right kind of person can excel like that. I agree with Melanie; mechanical ability should be de-emphasized. 

I honestly think that a medal box would be good in some ways for a HoS to give out to Good Cops. Said medal would stay on with the player (like a Spacebux type thing) and after x amount maybe they could be gently prompted to go for Hos? Idk. Maybe it’s a little too crude.

[Flaborized]

I still think the only reason people are not applying anymore is because there is not enough incentive to do so.
Like I said you use to also get mentor purple username but nowadays you get no fancy color to flex on everyone with.
And also no one really cares about the armory as much anymore. All the good stuff in there you can just hack to get it.

If people aren't applying for HoS because there's not incentive to do so, I don't think the solution is "giving them a fancy color to flex on everyone with". The reason you should apply for HoS is because you want to play HoS, not because you want to show superiority to others by having a specially colored name. 

The trial HoS rounds are a good idea and it'd be Neat if there was a way to mechanically implement that. 

The most reliable way to get people to apply up to this point has been telling them that they should, if you see someone is being really great as sec then telling them "hey you should be HoS you rock" can go a long way for them applying. People seem to be of the impression that because "oh I'm not robust" or "oh I died as security the other day" they couldn't be a good HoS, but as Melanie said, whether or not a person is a good HoS is almost entirely based on their sense of what sec should and should not be doing and their ability to communicate well. "Robustness", or mechanical skill at the game, shouldn't even be a factor beyond just knowing how to use security gear in my opinion. The role is based on communication and cooperation.

[KikiMofo]

I still think the only reason people are not applying anymore is because there is not enough incentive to do so.
Like I said you use to also get mentor purple username but nowadays you get no fancy color to flex on everyone with.
And also no one really cares about the armory as much anymore. All the good stuff in there you can just hack to get it.

If people aren't applying for HoS because there's not incentive to do so, I don't think the solution is "giving them a fancy color to flex on everyone with". The reason you should apply for HoS is because you want to play HoS, not because you want to show superiority to others by having a specially colored name.

I 100% agree with you. I think if people wanted to apply for HoS they would have already applied or the people that want to just need to play more.
Im not advocating that I WANT special shit for being HoS. Its just of my opinion that giving HoS more incentive would probably get more people interested in being HoS.
When I applied for HoS I didn't even know I was going to get Mentor or special name color. I just did it cause people told me to apply(and then kept kicking me outta the IRC till I applied for HoS)
Can we have a count of how many HoS apps/approvals from before the mentor/hos split and after it? I can almost guess we had a sharp drop off after they removed the fancy name color.

[OMJ]

I still think the only reason people are not applying anymore is because there is not enough incentive to do so.
Like I said you use to also get mentor purple username but nowadays you get no fancy color to flex on everyone with.
And also no one really cares about the armory as much anymore. All the good stuff in there you can just hack to get it.

If people aren't applying for HoS because there's not incentive to do so, I don't think the solution is "giving them a fancy color to flex on everyone with". The reason you should apply for HoS is because you want to play HoS, not because you want to show superiority to others by having a specially colored name.

I 100% agree with you. I think if people wanted to apply for HoS they would have already applied or the people that want to just need to play more.
Im not advocating that I WANT special shit for being HoS. Its just of my opinion that giving HoS more incentive would probably get more people interested in being HoS.
When I applied for HoS I didn't even know I was going to get Mentor or special name color. I just did it cause people told me to apply(and then kept kicking me outta the IRC till I applied for HoS)
Can we have a count of how many HoS apps/approvals from before the mentor/hos split and after it? I can almost guess we had a sharp drop off after they removed the fancy name color.

correlation doesn’t equate causation here, a lot of other things happened such as population drop off, an overall shift in player culture + more content being added. I honestly don’t think anyone really cares about the text. I think it was more so ease of having both of them wrapped into one- it made applying for just HoS particularly arduous. I never applied for mentor; I just got it along with HoS. I don’t think I would have ever done both apps if i needed to- it’s just a lotttt of work

[aft2001]

Bumping because I'd like to see whether or not a decision will actually be made. Discussion is good and all, but are any changes to the application going to be implemented for a trial run?

[OMJ]

could a trial HoS run be hardcoded in for every like, twenty sec rounds played?

[MagicStudiosGuy]

Or have a pop up appear when someone spawns as a HoS, asking if they want to do a trial run. Then a pop up goes to a random sec officer and asks if they want to be a trial HoS. Preferably avoiding new sec officers and it could keep showing up to new sec officers until someone accepts or everyone passes.

[aft2001]

Ehh, I'd much prefer if someone filled out a simple application to do trial HoS, then they had access to the role. If they joined as HoS then any Security staff would be notified that the HoS was a trial one, and that they were encouraged to provide feedback about their performance in-game on the forums. Could also have a similar message at the end of the round, telling all of the players.

Make the trial HoS fairly easy to achieve if you have a decent reputation as Security, and use the feedback from players to ascertain whether or not to revoke HoS access.

[Wisecrack34]

Would requirement for trial HoS be

1. Not being a jerk

or

2. Being decent at sec (and also not being a jerk)

[aft2001]

Would requirement for trial HoS be

1. Not being a jerk

or

2. Being decent at sec (and also not being a jerk)

Preferably both.

[Gousaid67]

I second aft2001's idea, It would be quite good to see how a player acts when they are at the helm compared to being a normal sec officer before making them a full time HoS. As OMJ pointed out, some take the position as a reason to power trip and be a shitter, some just act differently and some perform even better than expected.