Hypervigilant crewmembers

[Drago156]

Building off of what Technature had to say, deal with it.
If you want a better chance of losing someone, know what access your job has, know the pathways of the station, and use that to your advantage, I can guarantee no one is going to wait 10-15 minutes outside a room on you to leave it. Also, maint tunnels are super useful.

And mechanic traps are very shitty in general, with teleporters being probably the shittiest. You kinda ruined your own argument with that statement.

[Frank_Stein]

There's one area where a hyper vigilant crew can be annoying and that's going after antags not because they've done anything but because they're antags and they want to kill them and take their stuff.

You can dress up like a superhero and spend your traitor round as a station aligned do gooder, but someone WILL go after you because you've got a wrestling belt and they won't get in trouble for murdering you

Really, it's an unavoidable risk but it definitely limits your creative options if you don't want to "waste" your antag rounds

[Drago156]

I can see what Frank is saying and people killing antags just because they can is rude, but it happens.
Also, this was not supposed to be a new post, I meant to edit my last one, but I can't delete this one.

[Superlagg]

I tend to give antags a lot of leeway in how they conduct their antagging; it's super shitty to obliterate someone just because they're technically a badguy, and it's often more fun to let them get started before taking them down.

However, I do have a few exceptions to this!

- Anyone with a c-saber. Unless they're using it to flood the hallways with monkey blood or replicated swords, they're not getting a first chance.

- Egunslingers. They're as effective at murder as they are boring to be murdered by.

- Teleporter / invisocrusher traps. Walking down the hall and suddenly exploding into gibs or ash or nuggets is not great!

- Nerdy Collins. But only because he doesn't need a grace period, he's deadly at any speed.

Pretty much, if you show promise that you'll be an interesting foe, or at least fun to vanquish at the height of your villainy, often I'll give you a pass.

[Moon Jesus]

I used the wrong example. Teleporter traps are pretty overdone tbh... The round in question I was janitor and was filling the buffer with a mixture of water and welding fuel, which I intended to ignite. Instead some assistant knocked me off, checked the mixture, told sec I filled it with welding fuel, before I know it I got the captain, him, and many others chasing me all around the z-level. Even pods didn't work because they eventually tricked out sec pods with lasers just to get me. I was a ling too and somehow chucking my ID and transforming into shitty bill didn't stop it from being able to track me

But yeah whatever, this thread kind of was a knee-jerk. Not all rounds go this way and it sucks when it does but I guess it's just the rarity of getting antag that makes me salty.

[Readster]

Valid-hunting is super shitty. Security players please arrest people on sight for this they are attempting pre-meditated murder.

[Haprenti]

To me the fact that you can kill an antag who's done nothing except maybe reveal himself as one somehow shouldn't be a thing.
If your response to that is "What should I do then wait for them to kill someone ? He's allowed to do it", then what can I say ? It's clearly metagaming. Taken straight from the wiki : "Don't use information you shouldn't have".
You shouldn't know someone having some contraband item (idk, a jug of moonshine, a cloaker or something non directly lethal) is going to kill someone, if at all. Security can deal with that.

"But there's no security" then roll security officer in the first place instead of spending half a round lurking around for antags.
"But they have it rough" tough luck, get respected, but if you're in for the kills you should have it rough in the first place.

EDIT : That's for hypervigilentes, if you're not one you can obviously complain about possible lack of security.

[Moon Jesus]

To me the fact that you can kill an antag who's done nothing except maybe reveal himself as one somehow shouldn't be a thing.

Zingggggg. Maybe some kind of rule that says normal crew members can't kill someone, even an antag, if they haven't directly done something to threaten their life. Just because they have a wrestling belt but haven't tried to drop-kick you or anyone else (Rampaging then obviously just toolbox their ass) shouldn't give you cause to beat them to death with a fire extinguisher and space their corpse. I'm not saying you should be forced to wait until they drop-kick your ass. But you shouldn't just go all the way and murder them. Sec should be given free reign but should probably exercise due process

[Frank_Stein]

I definitely don't think it should be like, a hard rule. I think Readster has it right, where Sec should be the ones enforcing the standards on a round to round basis.

Like, if someone attacks the guy for having traitor gear, best result is arrest the attacker, and confiscate the item in question while leaving it's orginal owner free to go about their round. Gives them a chance to get it back, helps create a rivalry between the two parties

[Dr Zoidcrab]

Security is supposed to arrest vigilantes based on the grounds that they have no authority to decide that someone is "valid" in the first place, and that vigilates are just as likely to be antags accusing people so they can attack them without crew interference, or worse, convincing the crew to attack their target.

The same goes for people who attack cuffed antag suspects as sec is trying to bring them in, it should be treated as assault (or murder if it goes that far).

I tend to give antags a lot of leeway in how they conduct their antagging; it's super shitty to obliterate someone just because they're technically a badguy, and it's often more fun to let them get started before taking them down.

However, I do have a few exceptions to this!

- Anyone with a c-saber. Unless they're using it to flood the hallways with monkey blood or replicated swords, they're not getting a first chance.

- Egunslingers. They're as effective at murder as they are boring to be murdered by.

- Teleporter / invisocrusher traps. Walking down the hall and suddenly exploding into gibs or ash or nuggets is not great!

- Nerdy Collins. But only because he doesn't need a grace period, he's deadly at any speed.

Pretty much, if you show promise that you'll be an interesting foe, or at least fun to vanquish at the height of your villainy, often I'll give you a pass.

Anyone with easily concealable murder gear. radbows, grenades etc.

[NateTheSquid]

Valid-hunting is super shitty. Security players please arrest people on sight for this they are attempting pre-meditated murder.

kind of related, one of my favourite gimmicks is walking around with a wrestling belt, doing nothing, and seeing who notices. most of my antag rounds involve doing nothing traitorous, really obviously, then murdering the shit out of anyone who tries to kill me just for existing

[awfulworldkid]

One of my favorite gimmicks is the Faust kit. I have gotten chaplain traitor exactly twice since it was introduced. The first time, I was murdered within five minutes of roundstart by a mindslave ordered to kill anyone wearing any red clothing. The second time, I was doing alright until someone suddenly stunned me, grabbed all my contracts and all my pens, and ran off into a maintenance tunnel. The only way I even barely managed to pull myself out of that was by grabbing the single contract and single pen left over after the contract that they voluntarily signed gibbed them. They also weren't at all an antag.

[TheDK]

The kit seems cool, would like to try it. And it sucks you got your stuff stolen but, hey, its an awfulworldkid.

[Huff H Law]

Antags are out to ruin my round by killing me or blowing up the station of course I'm going to ruin their round by raising an alarm.

This is the exact mindset i'm talking about. It used to be "Antags are going to do something hilarious probably so I'll give them a chance but if they directly attack me then I won't hold back"

Now every traitor or spy might as well be a wizard to most of the people who play here

It used to be that the entire crew would be on your ass if you were an antag actually. At one point (this was in 2010 granted, almost seven goddamned years ago holy hell) "gimmicks" as such were even discouraged.

I'm saying this because I don't see what appealing to the past does.

---

To me the fact that you can kill an antag who's done nothing except maybe reveal himself as one somehow shouldn't be a thing.
If your response to that is "What should I do then wait for them to kill someone ? He's allowed to do it", then what can I say ? It's clearly metagaming. Taken straight from the wiki : "Don't use information you shouldn't have".
You shouldn't know someone having some contraband item (idk, a jug of moonshine, a cloaker or something non directly lethal) is going to kill someone, if at all. Security can deal with that.

"But there's no security" then roll security officer in the first place instead of spending half a round lurking around for antags.
"But they have it rough" tough luck, get respected, but if you're in for the kills you should have it rough in the first place.

EDIT : That's for hypervigilentes, if you're not one you can obviously complain about possible lack of security.

OTOH people should actually hide those things instead of expecting other players to pretend they're not traitors, if you ask me. Either way, is this thread about "vigilantes" (whatever they are) or how people should treat antagonists?

Also don't we have a problem with security not being played often? Wouldn't this lead to problems with how certain people in this thread want them to be a sort of "protagonist"? What are regular crewmembers supposed to do?

As to the Faustian kit: it has been criticized for exactly the reason of implying that you should let people who have contraband be in case they have a "fun" gimmick, instead of simply playing the game.

Anyway my opinion is that if you're a traitor you should hide that fact, security should arrest people who kill others or at the very least investigate the murder (same goes for the crew, as a traitor saying "don't worry the guy I killed was a traitor!" is a really easy bluff that you can use to make people think you're not a traitor), they should also arrest people for contraband, and people that HAVE contraband should at the very least TRY to lie to make it seem like they found it lying around instead of immediately killing themselves.

edit: Though obviously I'm not advocating people immediately kill anyone who has contraband, but people should at least try to convince someone else to not kill them. If people are running around just immediately icing people with some traitor item that aren't even using it then that is a problem (depending on circumstances of course, please don't take my word as gospel).

In conclusion: I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, haha

[ProfessorHugedix]

If people are running around just immediately icing people with some traitor item that aren't even using it then that is a problem

speaking of getting iced, i just got cryox+curare ballooned because "friendly wizards are nerds"

neato.