An analysis of the biggest problem with goonstation: apathy

[Ed Venture]

Although I'm pretty certain everyone I played with has gone away

2019 will mark my 10th year of playing on Goonstation. Feels like yesterday I was shown this game. But I'm still here buddy!

[Dr Zoidcrab]

Those "steal/destroy x worthless object" objectives always seemed pointless to me, at least for a game that's supposed to be about player interaction.

I guess the lack of sec players kinda screws up game balance, a lot of players got tired of doing uncontested rampages and others got lazy. Changelings, Vampires, Wraiths, and Blobs are far more susceptible to getting chased down by an angry mob than a traitor with a spas-12 or wrestling belt, who's round is usually ended by a volley of taser shots or at the hands of another antag.


While I wouldn't call myself an "old" goon player I did play back when His Grace and elmo the singularity were still around, and security were as likely to beat you to death for looking at them funny as hunt criminals.

[Superlagg]

Rampaging traitors aren't as fun to fight as, say, a blob or a changeling. A rampaging traitor typically has a way to disable you in one move and then kill you while you're helpless. After that, you're a ghost, and the rest of your round consists of agreeing with other ghosts about how BS this round was, or getting cloned after the traitor dies and waiting for the shuttle.

A blob, on the other hand, while just as deadly, can be fought effectively without too much fear of getting insta-stomped. They tend to be at least somewhat fun to fight, especially when the other crewmembers join in. Rounds tend to be quick with blobs too, either you kill it and round ends or all the corpses are borged, or you don't and the shuttle's not too far away.

Changelings are actually kinda fun to die to. Not only do you get your own exclusive ghost-club of ling victims, but you also get to work alongside the alien that killed you! Or curse it out, whichever's more cathartic. Trying and failing to kill a ling isn't always the end of your round, and that makes me want to fight then even more!

I tend to leave my traitorous massacre for closer to the end of the round, or make it something that'll lead to the end of the round, since I never really liked getting clotheslined into oblivion moments into the round and have to sit out the rest of the shift.

Not sure where I'm going with this, though.

[Boon Yoon]

Space Apathy is something I feel that may come in cycles. I made that one pro-rampaging thread, and for a while we had lots of vigilantes. Perhaps things have calmed down? I personally haven't noticed. Then again, I'm someone who ignores objectives and just kills people, ultimately resulting in a mob and my death. How unfun!!!!!

I also agree that people who follow a strict adherence to boring objectives may cause apathy, but I'd place it more on the boredom scale. If some sneaky traitor sneaks around and accomplishes his or her goals, with zero sign of traitorous behavior exhibited well past the 30 minute mark, the station loses a lot of personnel that would provide such "active content" to their own particular chosen suicide. Then at minute 45, the traitor in question finally decides to start killing people because he realizes how bored he is, or he finally finished his elaborate contraption, only to find a mostly empty station and geneticists staring into their terminal (a symbol for those that would always be apathetic no matter the situation, essentially easy kills).

Clearly, quick and open rampaging is a good thing! If you cause the crew to respond, it's, indeed, a good thing. Grab a flamethrower and set medbay alight while screaming and you may see apathy reduced during your run.

[Lady Birb]

There are two types of rampage traitors you see. The ones with a flamethrower in one hand and a shotgun in the other who scream constantly while murdering everyone they come across are fun to play against. The ones who buy a csaber or cloak+derringer and then go around waiting for someone to be alone, than unceremoniously and silently killing their victims, however, can go stick a power drill up their ass.

[Nnystyxx]

Silent murderbone traitors are basically reskinned changelings with none of the fun parts, and they can absolutely go fuck off. When I say murderbone, I actually more mean 'the most effective, shitty methods of murder' rather than rampages, which can be admittedly amusing for the sheer chaos caused. But if you're a silent edgy shit whose whole purpose is to snap up each crewman at a time and remove their ability to play the round, your utter non-presence making any retaliation against you nigh impossible and your existence only known either when you fuck up and die or when the round ends after your 7 shuttle recalls, get bent.

[Ed Venture]

Like a wise admin once told me "If you want rampages to stop then be the one to stop them" Teamwork be it as a Security Officer or with Crew members is every antag's weakness. If you ask me Apathy is the biggest issue with the community and I'm not talking about silent rampages I'm talking about the crew never interacting with each other or banding together to stop a antag like back in the old days. Back then if we knew a rampager was about on the station we'd form a angry mob and give back up to any Security Officer there was. Now people can't be bothered to fight back most of the time and would rather fuck with Security then help them or stay out of the way. Which leads to barely anyone playing Security cause the player base treats them like shit and leads to players not even attempting to fight antags but fighting with Security and whining when the person they should be stopping kills them.

Let's recap. Hardly anyone plays Security cause the Playerbase treats them like shit, which leads to almost no one around to stop a rampaging antag, which leads to people whining about rampages instead of trying to fight back or play the role made to stop antags. I don't think most players on goonstation really understand how fundamentally important the role of Security is when it comes to balancing the flow of Space Station 13.

This community has only themselves to blame for the state we find ourselves in.

---

Also just saying I've seen people say they don't play Security cause it robs them of being pick as a antag at round start. That's false. Check the wiki (I think the security page says this) or ask a admin. The game chooses Antags roles for players before job roles.

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Again just saying I think Thermals should be easier for the crew to get their hands on cause if you think about it being invisible to most of the crew is pretty OP even with the nerfs the cloaker has gotten over the years and I think it should be removed or have thermals more accessible to the crew just so they have some sort of fighting chance.

The other day I was rampaging with a cloaker and was only killed by the crew cause Four people tried to stop my rampage and they did cause I could not stop vomiting and they followed my trail of vomit till they got me cornered and killed me. There was no Security or Detective that round and without them capitalizing on my mistake (which was taking too much bath salts) they would have been doomed.

[babayetu83]

i dont think its the community's fault that security is an incredibly boring job

[Ed Venture]

i dont think its the community's fault that security is an incredibly boring job

I for sure think the treatment security players get is certainly a factor. Also I disagree that it's boring. There's plenty to do while waiting for things to happen.

[NateTheSquid]

have a sec specific vr that is just the normal vr but maybe some exclusive things, like shooting ranges, moving targets to robust, etc. also have a broadcast in the vr whenever anyone pda messages security/mentions sec/security on the radio, with the broadcast saying what it is. maybe a room in sec with a motion alarm for the vr to prevent people killing vr secmen. just to give them something to do

[Vitatroll]

I don't think sec is boring; I just think it's not for everyone. Like genetics, chem, or borg. I play ss13 to relax, which is why you never see me as sec or antag. I also have little 'active' time, which is why you regularly see me dead 20 minutes in.

Sec is the number one salt generating job. Sec outstrips antag in salt generation. Not just from antags either. That certainly has some effect. Especially when lots of people can't let shit go, and low-key carry that salt from round to round. Not much you can do about that though, aside from loving it or rolling a random name.

[Frank_Stein]

Too many old players that have run out of unique experiences. Why engage a changeling when it's not going to do anything to surprise you? You haven't quite mastered chemistry/pathology/the solarium quest so you'd much rather focus on that then something you've seen a million times

[atamusvaleo]

Back then if we knew a rampager was about on the station we'd form a angry mob and give back up to any Security Officer there was. Now people can't be bothered to fight back most of the time and would rather fuck with Security then help them or stay out of the way. Which leads to barely anyone playing Security cause the player base treats them like shit and leads to players not even attempting to fight antags but fighting with Security and whining when the person they should be stopping kills them.

This is the biggest issue Security faces. Non-antag players who will commit crimes and then escalate the situation to a level where Security ends up chasing and fighting with them all round, thus ignoring the actual antagonists.

I've had Sec rounds where people jump on chairs and attack me and then get upset when I arrest or beat them for it. They then spend the rest of the round making a point of attacking me, interfering with my arrests, or eventually causing damage to the station.

I will admit to "messing" with Security on occasion as a miscreant but it only extends to breaking windows or other random acts of vandalism. Things that, if an officer chooses to ignore, will have no impact on their rounds. If they decide to focus on me, the most I will do is disarm intent and run away: never using harm intent or weapons.

I had a round recently where I had been arrested continually by an officer for unscrewing windows. I was trapped in a hallway with him and having been whacked with a stun baton, I lay there crying. An antag detective shows up and stun shoots the officer. I got up, pushed the detective over, and pulled the officer to safety. The detective gave pursuit and as he started to open fire, I jumped in front of the officer to save him. I was just a staff assistant and he was an officer, much better equipped at dealing with antagonists. So, why not take a bullet for him? I died. He lived. End of story.

I can say with confidence that I've been the officer in similar situations and it ends up where the non antag gets up and helps the traitor attack and kill me.

[ElectroBlueGuy]

Back then if we knew a rampager was about on the station we'd form a angry mob and give back up to any Security Officer there was. Now people can't be bothered to fight back most of the time and would rather fuck with Security then help them or stay out of the way. Which leads to barely anyone playing Security cause the player base treats them like shit and leads to players not even attempting to fight antags but fighting with Security and whining when the person they should be stopping kills them.

This is the biggest issue Security faces. Non-antag players who will commit crimes and then escalate the situation to a level where Security ends up chasing and fighting with them all round, thus ignoring the actual antagonists.

I've had Sec rounds where people jump on chairs and attack me and then get upset when I arrest or beat them for it. They then spend the rest of the round making a point of attacking me, interfering with my arrests, or eventually causing damage to the station.

I will admit to "messing" with Security on occasion as a miscreant but it only extends to breaking windows or other random acts of vandalism. Things that, if an officer chooses to ignore, will have no impact on their rounds. If they decide to focus on me, the most I will do is disarm intent and run away: never using harm intent or weapons.

I had a round recently where I had been arrested continually by an officer for unscrewing windows. I was trapped in a hallway with him and having been whacked with a stun baton, I lay there crying. An antag detective shows up and stun shoots the officer. I got up, pushed the detective over, and pulled the officer to safety. The detective gave pursuit and as he started to open fire, I jumped in front of the officer to save him. I was just a staff assistant and he was an officer, much better equipped at dealing with antagonists. So, why not take a bullet for him? I died. He lived. End of story.

I can say with confidence that I've been the officer in similar situations and it ends up where the non antag gets up and helps the traitor attack and kill me.

this. i like playing as sec, but if you arrest someone for something, they'll just whine and insult you, then they will make your round shit, interfering while you are arresting an antag, basically that's why most of the players hate sec

[ferriswheel1]

Back then if we knew a rampager was about on the station we'd form a angry mob and give back up to any Security Officer there was. Now people can't be bothered to fight back most of the time and would rather fuck with Security then help them or stay out of the way. Which leads to barely anyone playing Security cause the player base treats them like shit and leads to players not even attempting to fight antags but fighting with Security and whining when the person they should be stopping kills them.

This is the biggest issue Security faces. Non-antag players who will commit crimes and then escalate the situation to a level where Security ends up chasing and fighting with them all round, thus ignoring the actual antagonists.

I've had Sec rounds where people jump on chairs and attack me and then get upset when I arrest or beat them for it. They then spend the rest of the round making a point of attacking me, interfering with my arrests, or eventually causing damage to the station.

I will admit to "messing" with Security on occasion as a miscreant but it only extends to breaking windows or other random acts of vandalism. Things that, if an officer chooses to ignore, will have no impact on their rounds. If they decide to focus on me, the most I will do is disarm intent and run away: never using harm intent or weapons.

I had a round recently where I had been arrested continually by an officer for unscrewing windows. I was trapped in a hallway with him and having been whacked with a stun baton, I lay there crying. An antag detective shows up and stun shoots the officer. I got up, pushed the detective over, and pulled the officer to safety. The detective gave pursuit and as he started to open fire, I jumped in front of the officer to save him. I was just a staff assistant and he was an officer, much better equipped at dealing with antagonists. So, why not take a bullet for him? I died. He lived. End of story.

I can say with confidence that I've been the officer in similar situations and it ends up where the non antag gets up and helps the traitor attack and kill me.

this. i like playing as sec, but if you arrest someone for something, they'll just whine and insult you, then they will make your round shit, interfering while you are arresting an antag, basically that's why most of the players hate sec

This is one of the big reasons, I think, that many people find sec unfun. If you screw up as sec and attempt to arrest an innocent, be prepared for a round of complaining from them.

People are utterly unforgiving of sec making mistakes, which is very easy to do considering the amount of chaos and confusion in an average round. It's not like these complaints are groundless at all, I've made some pretty terrible decisions in the heat of the moment, but no other job-role gets the level of shit sec does. If players could see their way to being more forgiving when sec screws up, you'd have more people playing officers.