Security Crackdown Community Edition

[Ed Venture]

you gave them the access and the shortcut to fuck with security for no reason. You were the source and the means that they were able to do what they did. You share the blame as your action to give all access Ids was the catalyst to the events proceeding it. The HoP has the power to spread chaos by the access they give out. I've explained why the HoPs that do this share the blame in this very thread. Again your intentions are clear you deny and deny even though you do what I describe cause if any change happens it will drasically change how you play your rounds and how you screw with security. Which to me seems like you have a unreal hatred for the role.

No you did not personally tell them what to do. But you knew what they were going to do and that makes you a tad guilty in my opinion.

[Sundance]

Following that train of thought, perhaps don't throw out a box of all-access ID's when there's two threads complaining about how HoP's make all access ID's?

Honestly that sounds completely vacant and needlessly ill-disposed, no matter what happened to you in the round. Your intent was clear.

[Vitatroll]

The irony being this little protest is far more effective as an argument against AAIDs.

[Grayshift]

I will jobban people from command roles if I see them engaging in grief-sec-by-proxy. Hand out most access all you want, but take the couple of seconds to remove security and ID computer from those IDs.

I am also encouraging sec to be brutal to those fuckers who can't take a hint after you throw them out once and think it's "wacky" to be the riot guy. Cut their arms off as a warning to the rest.

Brave souls who play security in these dark times, soldier on.

This will have to do until we hash out a code solution.

[Xeram]

I will jobban people from command roles if I see them engaging in grief-sec-by-proxy. Hand out most access all you want, but take the couple of seconds to remove security and ID computer from those IDs.

I am also encouraging sec to be brutal to those fuckers who can't take a hint after you throw them out once and think it's "wacky" to be the riot guy. Cut their arms off as a warning to the rest.

Brave souls who play security in these dark times, soldier on.

This will have to do until we hash out a code solution.

Perhaps we can get sec a nice and clear code of when we can inflict lasting and consequence holding punishments on people. A big issue is people fuck with sec and others because with sec they seem to think that they can't inflict any consequence that extends past a few missing items, ID, or minutes of the game while sec is scared to death to inflict them for fear of admin attention.

Because I've been yelled at as sec before for so much as Threatening to cut a guys arms off for doing something exactly like this. And grumped at after I killed him as he was a traitor who ended up shooting me twice with a derringer in a breakout attempt. Heck, I've been yelled at for disposaling a detective who's silently broken into my place of work 5 minutes into a round, flashed me, and started stripping me, gun drawn until I got the upper hand, and before conveyor belts shot people around at the speed of sound into the crusher.

Really just in general I'd like an idea of "How many times am I obligated to stun this idiot and tell him to knock his crap off." before I'm allowed to just dismember him. Because I find that if I so much as inflict any lasting damage while they aren't waving a saber, but a fire extingusher and dedicated attempts to attack me, I tend to get grumped at for putting them down, but tend to die due to intentionally trying to avoid killing them if they haven't explicitly done something lethal in their attempts to break in.

TL;DR Sec issues extend past mechanical and more into what is acceptable/when it is acceptable to inflict lasting effects that would usually end up falling under grief if done completely without reason.

[69andahalf]

Bring back implant only tasers, it worked back in the day when it was a big issue and could work again now! What could go wrong  :freep:

[Lady Birb]

Yeah, I will be okay with you cracking down on anarchist hops. I don't need a captain ID for all access anyway, that just makes it easier.

[Grek]

All sec should receive a mandatory lesson on how to remove criminal butts and staple then onto the heads of offenders.

[Tom Clancy's Gay Ghost]

Attention staff assistants: if you keep trying to break into sec you'll get beaten for it. Fuck off with that.

[Ed Venture]

I will jobban people from command roles if I see them engaging in grief-sec-by-proxy. Hand out most access all you want, but take the couple of seconds to remove security and ID computer from those IDs.

I am also encouraging sec to be brutal to those fuckers who can't take a hint after you throw them out once and think it's "wacky" to be the riot guy. Cut their arms off as a warning to the rest.

Brave souls who play security in these dark times, soldier on.

This will have to do until we hash out a code solution.

Gonna still arrest people that do this and start adminhelping said people I still see are doing this as well.

[aft2001]

I like Xeram's suggestion. A nice set of rules or information that basically defines the line between self-defense/being a good officer and being a bad officer and going too far. Everyone should be informed of this, and sec players should be reassured that killing in self-defense is fine.

[Sundance]

Here's a few pointers people should note when confronting people. Note that this is my own opinion, and is not the gospel:

- There's this phenomena that often happens around staff assistants/low grade workers where they do this thing which I call "fart tag". It's low grade griefing of disarming / farting, and for new security it is daunting. Many of these people do it out of boredom, but also because they lack items to confiscate and often care little if they get arrested (sometimes wanting to be). The way to deal with these people is to pay back in kind. Punch, chairflip, window toss, disposal drag, whatever just end it by farting on them to assert your dominance. A flash is last resort. Only use your baton/taser if it gets outta hand. The lowly staff assistant will submit. Protip: You can beat him up, and if he tries to fight back, stun him.

- Talking about getting out of hand, the one key thing that distinguishes between someone just mildly fucking around and being nefarious is if they are using a weapon. This might seem obvious, but it's center point that you should concentrate around when taking into consideration, brawls for example. Person A was using his fists while Person B was using a knife, who's more guilty? 

- There's a staff assistant in security? How to get him out? There's multiple ways of doing this, and without sugar coating it, being nice should be the first option. Ask him politely to leave. Failing that, ask him what he wants. He may actually have something to say. That or I often find some may want to share information. Consider it. Take a flash out from a dispenser and throw it outside sec, like a bone. Warn him if he comes back inside, the flash will be confiscated.

- That staff assistant is still there, or being nice is not working? Then he's being a douche. Arrest him and put him in the brig, 1-2 minutes. Warn him that you won't be so lenient next time.

- That staff assistant has come back. That's when you consider getting violent. He's spent his time in the brig and he doesn't give a shit. This is the grey area that you thread; you've tried talking, you've tried pacifying, you've tried rehabilitating, now show him force. Beat him the heck up. The line for me is if you crit him, that's near murder and I don't like seeing that in officers; you must have restraint. 

- War-by-proxy, helping antagonists (making chems, helping escape), and also general apathy (being in a position to help but refusing to do so/dereliction of duty), is punishable, and as warning, those doing so should be seen as complicit to traitors and punished severely for it.

- There's a guy with security equipment. He's probably has access too. It's in his hands, while arresting him there and then would be the obvious move, it's not the smart one. Weed out his intentions; where did he get it, why does he have it. No compliance/ non answer: Arrest him. Honest answer: Consider making him a mole, give him a sec headset. Failing that, make his life difficult: Set a securitron after him.

- You've caught a confirmed traitor! Weigh out the options: Murder, destruction and how much he's been a pain in the ass is the 3 main things to center on. Avoid being the "valid" killer, obviously if the man is a vicious killer then by all means, but always consider pacifying before execution. Pacifying by the way, is just about anything you can think of, see below.

- You've caught a guy who's been straight up fucking with sec the entire round and has done nothing short murdering them. Could be a mindslave, could be someone who took their miscreant objectives a little too seriously. Eitherways, show them no leverage. What constitutes no leverage? You should generally avoid killing them as you can't tell if they're a traitor or not. But you can fuck them up. Remove one of their legs or eyes. Get them drunk. Call the chaplain and make them retarded via bible. Insert bad genes into them. Attach their butt to their head. Put them in a straight jacket and flush them down disposals. You get the idea. Put the message across to them or anyone else that this shit is not tolerated. But be SURE to announce it on the radio.

- That guy you've punished severely for fucking with sec now has the idea that you're the bad guy and is now trying his best to take sec down. You've hopefully by then made it clear to the crew and to him what he did wrong. Firstly, attempt to stop it yourself, ending it by ending him (yes, killing him). Secondly if it's gotten out of hand, adminhelp.

- Lastly, do not get salty and do not fall prey to salt being thrown your way. Some players, including vets, often sling abuse to the player themselves ("Weh, you're always a shitsec round after round" is an example), rather than to the situation at hand. They sometimes may have a point and you should listen, but you must always as an officer be living in the now than in the past, concentrate always at the situation at hand. You'll find that this saltiness is a crutch when you question their logic. Do not grudge back; it shows that what they are saying is getting to you. Be consistent with your punishment, as it shows that you are better than them. And ALWAYS give wise ass remarks to saltiness, and apply farts-on-face where necessary.

[NateTheSquid]

Due to the events of a recent round where I was a staff assistant, repeatedly walked into sec via the open doors, and got tased, arrested, nearly killed, etc, I think sec officers should make sure they know the difference between breaking and entering, and trespassing

[Ed Venture]

Due to the events of a recent round where I was a staff assistant, repeatedly walked into sec via the open doors, and got tased, arrested, nearly killed, etc, I think sec officers should make sure they know the difference between breaking and entering, and trespassing

Hi I was one of those officers. One we asked you to leave first. You left and later came back. At this point you should know we don't want you there so I arrested you and made you do a Minute of time. Gave you a last warning that we may stop being nice about your trespassing if you keep doing it. Also trespassing is a crime. A little crime but one that deserves more punishment the more a person does it. I handed it pretty fairly I believe. Hell I've been beaten to death by security for trespassing and I've seen other Security players do far worse then I did to you over trespassing.

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What's do you mean nearly killed? We never harmed you though I gave you a warning that the next time you ran in you would get hurt.

[NateTheSquid]

Due to the events of a recent round where I was a staff assistant, repeatedly walked into sec via the open doors, and got tased, arrested, nearly killed, etc, I think sec officers should make sure they know the difference between breaking and entering, and trespassing

Hi I was one of those officers. One we asked you to leave first. You left and later came back. At this point you should know we don't want you there so I arrested you and made you do a Minute of time. Gave you a last warning that we may stop being nice about your trespassing if you keep doing it. Also trespassing is a crime. A little crime but one that deserves more punishment the more a person does it. I handed it pretty fairly I believe. Hell I've been beaten to death by security for trespassing and I've seen other Security players do far worse then I did to you over trespassing.

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What's do you mean nearly killed? We never harmed you though I gave you a warning that the next time you ran in you would get hurt.

It was mostly just that one guy who arrested me repeatedly AFTER I served my time. We cleared that up though cause the nearly dying was when he arrested me while I was bleeding the heck out, but he didn't realize, and when he did, he tried to heal me but things happened.