Meson Goggles: To change, or not to change?

[69andahalf]

Spoiler!

What is the difference between 'Option 3 Mesons' and thermo-vision Goggles (or night-vision goggles, what you call em)?
Just the see-through-cloak thing?

Edit: Had another look at the images, I get it now. Meson-3 is closer to the original function of mesons, to see construction through construction.
But now I don't understand the dichotomy; Why do the new mesons need a nerf?
Didn't old mesons have the exact same practical effect of allowing you to look through walls, only at other walls/floors?

Edit2: More looking, more understanding. Yes I see the advantage you would have with the new mesons against someone without them.

Now for some actual contribution:
What about this for a downside?: objects and people beyond a 3-tile radius are invisible, just like the are not visible through walls.

Why do they need a downside? It can be argued that you have an advantage against someone if you're wearing the science goggles or sunglasses, and they don't have any downsides. Literally mesons are used for basically nothing aside from very specific scenarios which Vitatroll outlined, and if you throw a huge shit on them no one is going to want to use them anyways.  

[Crazyabe]

Glasses wise I Enjoy TeleCrystal Flavor, When I can make them They end up being Sunglasses I can weld in that occasionally send me teleporting. I Avoid Mesons because they are useless UNLESS I want to see what ISN'T there (Holes in the Floor).

[somepotato]

Spoiler!

What is the difference between 'Option 3 Mesons' and thermo-vision Goggles (or night-vision goggles, what you call em)?
Just the see-through-cloak thing?

Edit: Had another look at the images, I get it now. Meson-3 is closer to the original function of mesons, to see construction through construction.
But now I don't understand the dichotomy; Why do the new mesons need a nerf?
Didn't old mesons have the exact same practical effect of allowing you to look through walls, only at other walls/floors?

Edit2: More looking, more understanding. Yes I see the advantage you would have with the new mesons against someone without them.

Now for some actual contribution:
What about this for a downside?: objects and people beyond a 3-tile radius are invisible, just like the are not visible through walls.

Why do they need a downside? It can be argued that you have an advantage against someone if you're wearing the science goggles or sunglasses, and they don't have any downsides. Literally mesons are used for basically nothing aside from very specific scenarios which Vitatroll outlined, and if you throw a huge shit on them no one is going to want to use them anyways.  

Because otherwise this is a turbonerds dream, it practically disables the limitations lighting brings for the wearer, they'd be able to act on things that they wouldnt be able to see normally (eg being able to laser someone across a dark room without any risk of retaliation) or similar.

[69andahalf]

Spoiler!

What is the difference between 'Option 3 Mesons' and thermo-vision Goggles (or night-vision goggles, what you call em)?
Just the see-through-cloak thing?

Edit: Had another look at the images, I get it now. Meson-3 is closer to the original function of mesons, to see construction through construction.
But now I don't understand the dichotomy; Why do the new mesons need a nerf?
Didn't old mesons have the exact same practical effect of allowing you to look through walls, only at other walls/floors?

Edit2: More looking, more understanding. Yes I see the advantage you would have with the new mesons against someone without them.

Now for some actual contribution:
What about this for a downside?: objects and people beyond a 3-tile radius are invisible, just like the are not visible through walls.

Why do they need a downside? It can be argued that you have an advantage against someone if you're wearing the science goggles or sunglasses, and they don't have any downsides. Literally mesons are used for basically nothing aside from very specific scenarios which Vitatroll outlined, and if you throw a huge shit on them no one is going to want to use them anyways.  

Because otherwise this is a turbonerds dream, it practically disables the limitations lighting brings for the wearer, they'd be able to act on things that they wouldnt be able to see normally (eg being able to laser someone across a dark room without any risk of retaliation) or similar.

I am dumb and probably mis-interpreted what The Grim Sleeper said. If I am picking up what he's putting down about the 3-tile radius in the dark, then IMO that's fine. I assumed he was talking about in any light, which doesn't really make sense.

[somepotato]

Well currently we can't mimick the behavior of mesons when they last work (eg, you being unable to see clearly through normally too-dark areas)
Thus we either need to compromise or remove them because currently they just tint your vision.

[Lady Birb]

There is one thing you are missing though: They still let you see if a tile is space or not, meaning you can still see if a room is breached without actually being in the room, assuming you know the layout.

[ZeWaka]

Well currently we can't mimick the behavior of mesons when they last work (eg, you being unable to see clearly through normally too-dark areas)
Thus we either need to compromise or remove them because currently they just tint your vision.

This is exactly why I'm hesitant to just make them option 3 without adding a downside them in the slightest.

[Ronnyfire]

If i am understanding The Grim Sleeper's nerf correctly, i support it fully.
Allow good dark vision and seeing construction past obstructions, but people down a "dark" corridor are invisible to you, because the mesons only reveal constructions.

[The Grim Sleeper]

I've made a mock-up to better illustrate my idea: Image. Note how your proper sight cuts out and you can't see the table, the foam tank or the space heaters, the light switch and the wire going north.

Why do they need a downside?

Because otherwise this is a turbonerds dream, it practically disables the limitations lighting brings for the wearer, they'd be able to act on things that they wouldnt be able to see normally (eg being able to laser someone across a dark room without any risk of retaliation) or similar.

It took me a while to see the problem too. To really see it compare the full-bright Image with the natural darkness Image and imagine your assassination target is standing by the Wire-junction next to the Morgue Door (the white one at the top). Without goggles, that person would be hidden in the darkness. With new unnerfed mesons, you would be able to see them, and they wouldn't be able to see you at all.

And me being exactly that kind of powerytard, I also don't think weakness to flash would deter me from using them. Hand held flashers will burn out with repeated use, so pre-emptive use is out. Unnerfed mesons would allow you to take somebody out, before they even think of grabbing the flash and before you get in range of the flash.

[Frank_Stein]

Would it be possible to apply that wavy filter that a cloaking field has to people and borgs when someone is wearing the mesons

[Mordent]

Perhaps have it apply the VISOR distortion (the one that lets you see while blind/without eyes) to your view as a marginal downside?

[somepotato]

I've made a mock-up to better illustrate my idea: Image. Note how your proper sight cuts out and you can't see the table, the foam tank or the space heaters, the light switch and the wire going north.

Why do they need a downside?

Because otherwise this is a turbonerds dream, it practically disables the limitations lighting brings for the wearer, they'd be able to act on things that they wouldnt be able to see normally (eg being able to laser someone across a dark room without any risk of retaliation) or similar.

It took me a while to see the problem too. To really see it compare the full-bright Image with the natural darkness Image and imagine your assassination target is standing by the Wire-junction next to the Morgue Door (the white one at the top). Without goggles, that person would be hidden in the darkness. With new unnerfed mesons, you would be able to see them, and they wouldn't be able to see you at all.

And me being exactly that kind of powerytard, I also don't think weakness to flash would deter me from using them. Hand held flashers will burn out with repeated use, so pre-emptive use is out. Unnerfed mesons would allow you to take somebody out, before they even think of grabbing the flash and before you get in range of the flash.

We're currently unable to implement your idea (eg stuff too dark to see being as before, invisible), thats why this thread was created.

[The Grim Sleeper]

We're currently unable to implement that, thats why this thread was created.

Ah, I should have realized that.
That kind of shifts my opinion to 'just remove'.

Would it be possible to apply that wavy filter that a cloaking field has to people and borgs when someone is wearing the mesons

Perhaps have it apply the VISOR distortion (the one that lets you see while blind/without eyes) to your view as a marginal downside?

Now I am curious about if these are possible.

[ZeWaka]

oh yes, mwah, this looks good

<@HeadSurgeon> just excited for meson unfuckery right now

Urgent message from central command received!

Nanotrasen would like to inform the crew of Space Station 13 that there has been a defect in the meson production line, accidentally swapping them out for executive-level only line. We have corrected the defect and you will now be receiving 540-280THz Attenuation Goggles. They might be a bit harder to see with, but you sure can still see through walls with them! You just gotta... get closer. They also come with a nice tint of green!

[Noah Buttes]

So what exactly changed in the lightning system that broke mesons?

Why would a plane based lighting system cause this?