should we remove asperger's jokes y/n

[Grek]

Change my vote to 'remove', we've got someone with Aspergers saying its not OK. And besides, butt is a more inherently funny word.

[Nnystyxx]

My choices are nebulously stuck between "just change it to buttburgers" because butt is indeed a funnier word and it creates tonal consistency and "change the description", because even if you don't want to avoid a vague irritant joke, the 'awkward' descriptions are a huge letdown. I mean it's literally a fucking butt between buns, you'd think you'd be able to make more of an observation than that. Scanning buttflesh fabric made via materials has a rightly horrified description.

[NesMettaur]

Is assburger a slur? I only ever heard it brought up 'round these parts to make fun of people who can't actually pronounce Asperger to save their life.

Like, the "WebMD mom" group in particular. i.e. "Oh, they must have assburgers."

[Vitatroll]

I entered the discussion pretty much knowing they'd be changed, it honestly doesn't bother me. I just don't want the change to carry enough momentum to alter the things I do care about. You may think it paranoid, but I've seen it happen a lot after 20+ years of the internet.

To be more precise, the trend has been ongoing for several years. Resistance from the majority has slowed it, though.

I just wanted to say that this made me feel like I understood something new. I guess I've just never really known the feeling you describe.

All humans have it. We want more than we need. We want things that hurt us. We do dumb things. In fact we generally have fun doing dumb things, like playing this game. Desire should be tempered with reason, but it shouldn't be cast out in favor of it.

Or at least this is my belief.

[Superlagg]

Hey, fun fact! Spacker is *technically* kind of a slur too.

And I just got the joke, its a play on SPAS, which can be pronounced as "spaz" and "spacker" is another word for spaz. Heh, actually kinda funny.

[UrsulaMejor]

Change my vote to 'remove', we've got someone with Aspergers saying its not OK. And besides, butt is a more inherently funny word.

We've had that from the beginning

[misto]

sperghetti noodles is the only really overt one. with the pie and burger, you can have thorough plausible deniability if you change the descriptions a little

also, eating ass burgers and eating or being struck by ass pie should inject a small amount of egg into your bloodstream to make the recipient fart, if it doesnt already

[TheNewTeddy]

this came up in the IRC


as I see it the whole current prevailing argument is "someone could be offended by this, all the aspies have said it doesn't offend it (or that it's borderline) but their opinion does not matter, it might offend someone, somewhere, somewhen, and we already said the vote does not count, so we are just going to toss the entire thing, and stop these jokes"

Reading the last 3 pages this is the clear impression I get.

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just to make clear WHY I feel that way:

Honestly I never had connected half of those things before, and I even had heard the assburgers joke in a different context.

I feel this way and from what I can gather many people felt the same as well.

I worked 2 1/2 years as a caregiver for people with various mental and intellectual disabilities, and I've definitely seen how ableism can be a real thing in several forms

There's an argument that this is somehow ableism, but there's no evidence provided at all.

popecrunch

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Despite our pretty good track record of removing homophobic / racist / sexist / etc.-ist stuff from the game

 It is a good track record, so I'm going to say yes on removal.

This is comparing benign terms to words like n***** or f*****. As I write that I frankly find that offensive, but can't really explain why or how.

I thought the ass-items were butt puns. Shows what I know. And that sperghetti was a doofy spelling.

I mostly object to 'sperging out' being used to describe throwing a fit or lashing out.

This explains my feelings word for word. I agree with 100% of this.

My opinion is while it's hypocritical, I don't believe that autistic people would be that offended by this. I assume most would be trying to blend in and not immediately announce that they have autism by deeming something offensive.

Yes, you are right, that is offensive. I am very open about my autism, and to suggest that everyone with autism is just lying because they have autism is fucking moronic.

I wanna say, though I am voting for the removal, I agree that it's really not that bad, or that anyone is a bad person or anything for not being bothered by it.

I'm more just arguing for a consistent hand across these things.

Consistent with what? That "Aspie" is equal to "N*****" or "F*****"

This is tied into a much larger issue: one of empathy for others. Someone has already stated how they struggled in the past when coming to terms with their doagnosis as having Asperger's.


There's a question we should ask ourselves:
Do we desire to bevome a haven where people can play a game in an environment where they don't receive the typical harassment so commonly found in our day to day lives OR do we say "nah screw it, we think it's funny, so deal."

The fact that we already ban folks for using bigoted language speaks volumes in what direction we should take this (I would hope). I don't think this is necessarily  something folks should be getting banned over but a light reminder that, hey it won't be tolerated if you continue with this behaviour, would be refreshing. Same goes for calling people retards, schizo, etc.

Our society's view are slowly adapting to become more accepting and inclusive of others. I'd hate to see goonstation make the same backward movement my country has just made.

Again, there is the assumption that

A - this is somehow offensive, when nobody has yet explained how or why
and
B - these terms are thus equal to other 'bad words'

As someone with Asperger's(technically classified as on the autism scale right now...)

I've considered both sides. Sperg is generally something that is usually used as slang(stop being such a sperg), and is honestly frequently enough used as a slur degrading people that I think it would be removed. As for assburgers, while it isn't used as much as sperg, it's still used frequently enough as a slur and to disparage people who are socially inept that I think it should be removed as well.

Asspies is on the fence, and is rarely used as a slur against me and others, but should be changed for a similar reason as assburgers.

While the puns are amusing, and I am overall okay with the description(I am definitely awkward and find humor in said descriptions), I think there is far too much emotional baggage associated with the terms sperg and assburgers to stay as they are. It would be like calling a cigarette a 'nig'. While again I appreciate the pun and find humor in the description, both terms have in my experience been used as slurs against me and others(albeit indirectly about someone who is socially awkward in general).

I'm not sure what world you live in or communites you go to, but aspie has always been seen as fine (and yes, I've been to massive asperger driven online communities) while "sperg" has always been borderline offensive, if not on the offensive side of said line.

This is what I was driving at.

Also, the argument of, "I have Asperger's so it's okay because I'm not offended," is EXACTLY the same as someone saying, "I'm black or gay and I'm not offended by these pejoratives." An excuse that won't stop you from being banned in such cases.

again, we compare these bullshit words that are not even offensive to words that everyone here agrees actually are offensive.

I've also said I'm not trying to guilt or shame anyone for their opinion here

No, other people are doing that.

For serious right there in the original post i said that it wasn't necessarily going to be binding

Given what's above, I feel that this post translates into

"We are going to remove it no matter what the vote says"

Generally while I'm okay with the descriptions poking fun at Aspergers, the names are again used as a slur which makes it unacceptable IMO. Even changing 'ass' to 'butt' would remove the slur.

Again, this, from my experience in online asperger communities, is untrue. Aspie is not an offensive term. I've even met up in person with people who have aspergers, and our group was called "aspies"

Change my vote to 'remove', we've got someone with Aspergers saying its not OK. And besides, butt is a more inherently funny word.

And this is where I throw up my hands and stop giving a fuck.

If this is how people really feel, just remove all of it. I really don't care. If my opinion does not matter, then why the fuck was a thread made asking me what that opinion is.

[Sundance]

I 100% agree with you Thenewteddy, but I trust pope will be understanding of the vote here, the remove side just seems to be very vocal in their opinion.
I feel like at this stage, it's arguing over where in the sand do we cross the line, and I'm asking should we REALLY give a fuck? I sure as hell don't.
Our rules have served the purpose for disparaging edgy 14 year olds from playing on our servers, while creating an inclusive environment to the best of our abilities. If we keep looking at the fine print we're at risk of sterilizing the server. Bold words, but I'll stand by them.

Remove sperghetti, fine. I think it's been clarified that the remain side really gives zero fucks about sperghetti because for a long time it was thought to be swedish.

[Ed Venture]

Once again TheNewTeddy and Sundance are completely right.

[Lady Birb]

TheNewTeddy said everything I wanted to say in a way better than I could have said it.

[Houka]

I really have no strong feelings about it. I lean more toward the 'remove' side but only because making fun of a group of people because of a handful of people who only claim to be a part of it seems mean-spirited in itself... This comes from my overarching opinion that making fun of people either because they are genuinely mentally ill or whether they're just deluding themselves doesn't create anything but arguments and mental health is kind of a scary subject in itself that no one should treat lightly. Not the people making fun of others, or the people only claiming to fall in the spectrum to have an excuse for their behavior.

But... this is not an egregious example of that. It's barely noticed in the day to day gameplay. Alter the name of 'sperghetti' and no one will really notice that very much. And the example is a food item that actually prevents stunning in the game, iirc, so it's not even all that insulting in context.

I'll go with whatever the admins decide on this, it's not gonna bother me either way.

[atamusvaleo]

Sooooooo, I guess I have to clarify this: I'm not offended by this. The question was asked and I was simply stating my opinion and reasoning behind that. I'm not "offended for anyone" either but I still can see this for what it is.

Teddy... of course it's not so scathing as other "bad words." You're referencing two words that carry A LOT of weight.

Look to Houka's post to see my point explained from another perspective:

I lean more toward the 'remove' side but only because making fun of a group of people because of a handful of people who only claim to be a part of it seems mean-spirited in itself... This comes from my overarching opinion that making fun of people either because they are genuinely mentally ill or whether they're just deluding themselves doesn't create anything but arguments and mental health is kind of a scary subject in itself that no one should treat lightly. Not the people making fun of others, or the people only claiming to fall in the spectrum to have an excuse for their behavior.

But... this is not an egregious example of that. It's barely noticed in the day to day gameplay. Alter the name of 'sperghetti' and no one will really notice that very much. And the example is a food item that actually prevents stunning in the game, iirc, so it's not even all that insulting in context.

I'll go with whatever the admins decide on this, it's not gonna bother me either way.

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Again, I don't think it's a huge deal but there's a lot behind this.

[Tom Clancy's Gay Ghost]

I'm pretty solidly on the remove side for one reason. The actual humour of the names isn't enough to justify any potential offense it might cause. We can come up with funny names/dumb puns that aren't joking about things like this.

[VictorMAngoStein]

I mean, if we had something like vaccines having a small chance to give some sort of in-game Asperger's I wouldn't mind that either, but I digress.

I thought we did.  At least, the wiki mentioned a disease called space autism that made you sneer at things.

I actually have Asperger's, and none of this ever really bothered me, though it does feel a little odd at times.

That said, I'm an odd exception who thinks that they've mostly overcome their problems and spends the vast majority of their time pretending that they don't have Asperger's.

Assburgers are great though.

This.  Shit's going way too far, a few months ago people were getting triggered by the new fart sounds ffs. Also I'd have to come up with a new AI gimmick if sperg jokes get banned

Plus it's generally assumed that anyone who plays SS13 is an aspie by default