Add Rev Back to Rotation

[misto]

a while back we were spitballing a sort of mind-control-virus or alien-abduction-brainwashing gamemode that could have revived rev while putting a fresh twist on it http://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=5147

[BBEG]

Rev was removed because heads would either die immediately hide in lockers for a long, boring ass time.  It ain't coming back, at least not in it's current form.

Personally, I'd rather have spy come back than rev.

But if you guys absolutely HAVE to have rev back, the best way to make it not shit would be to basically make it into spy 3.0, but with only one spymaster tasked with killing the heads.

Less of a revolution and more of a coup.

a way we could work around the grey tiding is either by making it so each rev head can only convert a certain number of people (which would scale with the pop obviously) that way they have to consider who there going to convert, or have it like gang mode were its completely voluntary

[Mageziya]

Now that I've thought about it, the big problem with Rev is the asymmetry of knowledge. Every Rev freely knows who is and isn't Rev, along with who their targets are. The heads on the other hand have no idea who their allies are, let alone who the Rev heads are. This leads to the main problem of Rev where the Heads have no idea if they should treat someone as hostile or not until said person's razor blade is already halfway down the Head's throat.

Resolution to this problem, along with making it easier for the Heads to recruit allies, could make Rev significantly more manageable.

[Musketman12]

Now that I've thought about it, the big problem with Rev is the asymmetry of knowledge. Every Rev freely knows who is and isn't Rev, along with their targets. The heads on the other hand have no idea who their allies are, let alone who the Rev heads are. This leads to the main problem of Rev where the Heads have no idea if they should treat someone as hostile or not until said person's razor blade is already halfway down the Head's throat.

Resolution to this problem, along with making it easier for the Heads to recruit allies, could make Rev significantly more manageable.

Perhaps people with loyalty implants could get a little symbol next to their heads for heads and sec?

[Grek]

A rev mode that would work: Head = Head Rev.

One of the Heads of Staff is a Revolutionary, hoping to seize control of the Station for their department. By using their flash on members of their department, they can activate those individuals as Revolutionaries. The Captain (and only the Captain) can de-convert revolutionaries using a flash. Sunglasses and Loyalty Implants prevent both conversion and de-conversion. The revolutionaries all have the objective to murder the heads and to assist their fellow revolutionaries. The shuttle can still be called normally, and the Heads win by escaping alive.

Head of Personnel: Chef, Barman, Botanists, Clown, Janitor, Mime.
Chief Engineer: Engineers, Mechanics, QM, Miners.
Medical Director: Doctors, Geneticists, Roboticists.
Research Director: Scientists, Test Subjects. (This may be a bit underpowered)
Head of Security: Security & Detective.

[Noah Buttes]

WORDS
Research Director: Scientists, Test Subjects. (This may be a bit underpowered)

I love the idea, but are you kidding me?

Toxins, telescience, CHEMISTRY!

[Frank_Stein]

Idea for alternate win condition: 

• Take that thread about Flags and flag poles and implement flags around the station
  
• Task the Revs with removing and burning NT flags, replacing them with their own
  

[poland spring]

Whoah this is starting to sound like a hybrid of gang mode in the best sense

[Vitatroll]

The real problem with rev, in my eyes, is that most people want to be revs. This is the same for any 'antag conversion' game mode. The vast majority want to be bad. They want to destroy. They want to act contrary to a normal round. Since there aren't any real downsides to being revs, most opt to ignore the obvious signs and get converted.

The more we try to 'fix' rev the more it starts to resemble 'rev team a vs rev team b' in where the teams are clearly defined and equally stocked. It reminds me of those fps game modes where it's a team deathmatch but you have to guard certain players.

Like I said earlier, if people want chaos just build a mode from scratch. No point in trying to rehash rev when you might as well create something tailor fitted to our needs.

That being said, I have no problems with it being enabled for a week or two to give it another chance.

[poland spring]

Why not have two competing rev groups or something idk

[Arborinus]

I've mentioned it before in discussions like this, but the Cluwne Spider idea I had a while back is very similar to what Vitatroll is saying. I should remake those sprites some day cause they are ugly as hell.

Basically, being forcefully converted to a mindslaved cluwne is something people wouldn't want to happen to them, but would fulfill the "convert crewmembers into a group of antags" that has been tried and failed before.

It doesn't have to be that either. I like the flags idea, maybe the people putting up flags could be technologically backward hippies who wear balacavas and fingerless gloves and refuse to use most technology or something.

[lambskin]

That's why I'm saying heads should be hardmode traitors at the start of every rev round, it gives them a chance to realise what's going on and organize some defenses. yeah you could say it is meta that the heads automatically know what's going on but damn the rest of the staff have such a massive advantage. like sure the RD can make hellchems or whatever but so can the other 5 scientists, all of which can be converted. and if the heads act like total fascists then the gamemode would probably more fun tbh. more conflict is usually fun.

[Frank_Stein]

Why not have two competing rev groups or something idk

That could work. Give each Rev Head one Head staff member they want to protect, and orders to kill the rest?

[Noah Buttes]

That's why I'm saying heads should be hardmode traitors at the start of every rev round, it gives them a chance to realise what's going on and organize some defenses. yeah you could say it is meta that the heads automatically know what's going on but damn the rest of the staff have such a massive advantage. like sure the RD can make hellchems or whatever but so can the other 5 scientists, all of which can be converted. and if the heads act like total fascists then the gamemode would probably more fun tbh. more conflict is usually fun.

I feel like this might be a good solution too.

[MollyMillions]

A rev mode that would work: Head = Head Rev.

One of the Heads of Staff is a Revolutionary, hoping to seize control of the Station for their department. By using their flash on members of their department, they can activate those individuals as Revolutionaries. The Captain (and only the Captain) can de-convert revolutionaries using a flash. Sunglasses and Loyalty Implants prevent both conversion and de-conversion. The revolutionaries all have the objective to murder the heads and to assist their fellow revolutionaries. The shuttle can still be called normally, and the Heads win by escaping alive.

Head of Personnel: Chef, Barman, Botanists, Clown, Janitor, Mime.
Chief Engineer: Engineers, Mechanics, QM, Miners.
Medical Director: Doctors, Geneticists, Roboticists.
Research Director: Scientists, Test Subjects. (This may be a bit underpowered)
Head of Security: Security & Detective.

If this was locked to only happen if the server pop was over 25, and if the ENTIRE department started out as antags with no conversion abilities, no special tools except maybe a target tracker locked to the captain, and the goal of taking over the station somehow (kill the captain or get him off the z-level, upload a file to a syndicate satellite via a computer on the bridge that makes lots of noise and takes a few minutes like when the nuke crew sets up the nuke) then it would be great.