Cogmap 2: *** UPDATE TO BYOND 509 ASAP ***

[Nitrous]

Happy 420th post everybody!!

:downswords:

[Sex_Robot]

I have.. "Issues" with medbay. Arch this space for a full post.

[Cogwerks]

I look forwards to hearing 'em!
Please be patient with the door respriting project. I have some workarounds planned to improve them, just haven't gotten to it yet.

[SL the Pyro]

New door maker here, considering the critique the doors have been getting I thought I'd better step into the light.

My reasoning behind the new-new doors was that the old-new doors didn't match the new perspective of the walls. The slanting of the walls doesn't extend all the way to the bottom of the sprite; it stops mid-way down and is extended by some kind of padding stuff, and the old-new doors went past where the slanting ended, and since there were no vertical door sprites made in that style I had no way of knowing how that was supposed to work. There's also the issue of the doors being not lined up with the walls so as to appear below them, which would somewhat defeat the purpose of an air-tight door. So I decided to make new doors and had to choose between either making all the doors slanted too, or making thinner doors that properly slid into the walls when opened, but in both cases lining them up with the actual tops and bottoms of the walls. In attempting to do this they ended up having that "floating" effect as I kept the doors centered between the walls and their spot on the floor.

Ultimately I made both kinds of doors - the new space airlocks use slanted door versions. Some examples:



Despite the effort and justification though, I understand why people think the doors are floating. Did I simply try too hard to make the horizontal and vertical doors match each other?

I've been told by cogwerks that giving the horizontal doors a pixel offset to line the door bottoms up with the wall slants actually makes them look a lot better, though I haven't actually seen it. Something like this?


This is just with the regular/glass doors moved down by two pixels, and the slanted airlocks by one. It already looks better (though my autism gnaws on me for that dead zone above the doors like on the old-news, but I'll live).

Pixel-offsetting the vertical doors is planned, though if you still think they look subpar I could make some new and hopefully better ones (I don't especially want to, but I will if necessary).

[Naximous]

Doors Doors Doors

That's actually a lot better! Now we can climb over them! Making the doors like 2 pixels longer vertically (might) help.

[Erik]

This, just looks super weird tbh.

[Cogwerks]

Firelocks haven't been updated yet.

[Cogwerks]

This link was just pulled up in IRC again. Heh.

https://web.archive.org/web/201407150748...03,1;z=0.2

I barely recognize most of this early work anymore.

[Erik]

Firelocks haven't been updated yet.

No, it's not the firelocks that make it look weird, it's that the door looks like it's only a few pixels wide, while the wall/glass tiles are wider.

[SL the Pyro]

Firelocks haven't been updated yet.

No, it's not the firelocks that make it look weird, it's that the door looks like it's only a few pixels wide, while the wall/glass tiles are wider.

Well, that's because they are only a few pixels wide. Remember: the walls are slanted, whereas most of the doors are straight, so of course they'll look smaller when viewed from above.



Besides, if the doors are sliding into the walls, then they have to look like they fit into the walls.

If there's one thing that bothered me about the vertical doors when I was making them, it's that I thought they were too thin to reflect the type of door (like with the stripes and such). But after a while I realized that a lot of people aren't going to see it as 32x32; most of them have their graphics zoomed in in some fashion, hence why I've been blowing up these example images.

[Naximous]

Updated again: http://goonhub.com/maps/cogmap2

[Z3shep]

Hello, I'm just here to put out my dumb and probably bad opinions on the doors thing.

I think the big problem here is clashing perspectives. The horizontal walls are drawn in the same isometric-esque perspective as most of the new resprites are. However, vertical walls are done in an overhead-isometric perspective designed to show off the side faces of the wall. Then, these two perspectives mix again in the corner pieces. Finally, no wall sprite ever shows the back face. So, the walls aren't slanted at all.

So, when you create a door to fit the vertical wall segments that applies the rules of the horizontal wall segments, and then apply an isometrised variation of the rules of the vertical wall segments to adapt said door to fit horizontal wall segments, the products look funny.

[Sex_Robot]

Ok the promised mebay post

So the new medbay niggled me for a good while but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Well, after spending a while staring at the map I think I have a better understanding of what is going on in my mind.

So the first issue is economy of space. I live in a reasonably sized one bedroom apartment but I always seems to be lacking space, then I realised that one of the reasons I do is that my entrance hallway extends the length of the property and is fucking huge. But too Narrow to do anything with, it's just wasted space that could have been put towards making the rooms bigger. The Cogmap 2 medbay suffers from the same issue, look at this.

The space distribution is as follows

Blue Is regularly used medbay space,
Green is pathology, sure it's useless now but when the new pathology system is released I can see it becoming pretty useful,
Red is corridor space with nooks and crannies here and there. Sure there are things IN the corridor but it is lacking any defined purpose areas.



What looks like it started as an attempt at a more open plan design has turned into a lot of dead areas that can't be used for anything other than walking through and results in quite a bit of traversal, anyone who plays medbay can tell you that dragging people around and trying to stop them from dying while they're flailing and farting is difficult enough already, additional traversal time is not helpful.

There also seems to be a confusion in escalation. When I say escalation I mean the more severe state a patient is in the more advanced medical shit they need done to them, in it's roughest form it goes Dispensed Meds > Cryo > Sleeper > Surgery > Ward. Logic dictates that the lowest levels of medical help should be at the outmost reaches of the medbay. This works initially as the pharmacy is at the entrance, but sort of goes a tad wonky futher in where cryo is regulated to the very back of the department. The Ward while not severe is best used when people are going to be in medbay for a little longer than usual, either they're sleeping something off or they're getting a transfusion or something else. Regardless they're probably in need of higher end medical care so beds can be stashed further back in the medbay. Also we need more sleepers. Sleepers have been made MUCH better as of late, They're a source of infinite saline and charcoal as well as massively reducing the time needed to overcome addition and recover from illnesses that require sleep, when I play medical I use them all the time, so having some of more of them would be super useful.

There are also some individual things that I just don't get



1. Cloning First cloning was moved to outside genetics, I understand this because geneticists don't play with others, they ignore the rest of the server and play genematch all round so moving cloning into general medbay is a good idea. But exposing cloning to general population just gives medbay one less thing to do, add to this the fact that cloning is already a high priority bombing target for your run of the mill generic traitor and you are all but guaranteeing that it will get fucked up nearly ever round.

2.Random Storage Area Everything will get stolen. Paramedic suits are free armor, belts are belts. boooooo.

3.Rest Area? When the shit hits the fan and you get a lot of people in at once, 2 beds are not enough, especially if you get a bout of food poisoning or flu hitting the station. People won't sleep in the crew quarters because they're unsafe, you could be throttled in your bed and nobody would know. People want to sleep in the ward so they can have someone keeping an eye on them. It's also a good way of keeping track of who needs immediate care and who can just chill on saline while they're waiting for a robot leg to be attached.

4.Nothing Wasted space and an easy way for an asshole with a toolbox to depressurize the entirity of medbay.

5.Asylum? What is this for? Is this for crazy people? Is that why there is a straight jacket in the corner? Straightjackets are dubious at best because they are similar to oldschool bucklecuffing and people are hesitant to do it. I can see this never being used. Ever.

That's enough picking shit apart, have a shitty copy paste photoshop of what I would like to see the new medbay offer

1. Moved Cryo further up the corridor, Cryo is one of the "tallest" structures in SS13 so placining it in a vertical corridor both looks better and is more space conservative, I put the couch up there too because why not.
   
2. More beds! In Dept Sleepers! This also puts pathology "behind" the ward and seeing as they are both "bed" based areas it makes sense they go together.
   
3. Removed the vacumn, it really doesn't add much and just makes depressurization a constant but boring threat, the space could be much better used and allows for more fuckering from the maint tunnel behind medbay.
   
4. Moved the clothing racks to where the vending machines were, they're still accessible and stealable but at least now they're a reasonable distance from the door.
   
5. Added a a doors to the left of The doors are designed to split medbay into "here for 30 seconds" and "here for a few minutes" and means that people can sleep off their flu without fear of being stripped by a staff assistant.
   
6. Switched the random storage area into a sort of.. diagnosis area. A plain, slightly walled area where doctors can scan patients and have quick access to a medical fabricator, reagent extractor and med dispenser quickly and easily without having to drag people into the pharmacy and trapping them behind a door.

People probably have a hundred and one good reasons why I'm wrong, so feel free to tear it up. Just throwing some ideas out.

[Dr_Bee]

Looks good Sex_robot. though I think the rest area is alot of space used for something that can be compressed a bit. this new medbay does lack something the old one had, a Doctors Lounge. you know, the little hole in the wall near the pharmacy where the segways, vending machines, and clothing lockers are kept. It is a nice place for doctors who need to go braindead for a bit or want to grab a coffee can go and it would be a good thing to put in to take up some of the huge amount of space.

[Naximous]

Medbay Cloning Blah Blah Blah

This actually looks kinda neat.

The bed area looks kinda silly IMO, maybe the asylum area could be used for the beds instead/too? (since it will never be used) (Cogwerks will probably come up with something)