ok

[Frank_Stein]

will this have any effect on ppl scooting under the plastic flaps to sneak into places

It should be about the same, but if you could kick people around and push them back that way.

[SL the Pyro]

I'll admit that I might not have been right in the head when I suggested the taser change. Something about "shocks make your fists clench, so why would you DROP what you're holding?". I'll concede though that Security still needs a reliable way to disarm people, otherwise their jobs would be nigh-impossible.

[Roomba]

I think a limited amount of movement/item use when lying down would be fine. I think getting tazed/beaten up until you drop should remain as they are, because when your stamina is down you ought to be completely helpless until you recover. Possibly getting slipped/shoved pushes you to the ground but doesn't cause you to drop your items. Maybe when voluntarily lying down you keep a hold on your items and can move about slowly, although you can't interact with things and move at the same time because you're using all your limbs to crawl.

[Noah Buttes]

I'm going to sum what I think are the best ideas in this thread:

I think getting tazed/beaten up until you drop should remain as they are, because when your stamina is down you ought to be completely helpless until you recover.

Maybe when voluntarily lying down you keep a hold on your items and can move about slowly, although you can't interact with things and move at the same time because you're using all your limbs to crawl.

[Noah Buttes]

Shit, I hit submit instead of preview.

Keep the following things unchanged:

• Security weapons
• Losing consciousness
• Running out of stamina (however, if you're still conscious, regaining some stamina should let you take action while still on the floor, but before fully recovering)
• Slipping (so clowns and janitors can still save the day)
• Suplexes
• Dedicated antagonist stuns (throwing knives, vampire glares, vuvuzelas, bowling balls, sonic grenades, c-sabers, etc.)

Allow limited tool utilization and movement with the following:

• Knockdown from bomb blasts (assuming you aren't knocked unconscious)
• Lack of legs (this ties in with the previous point)
• Segway collisions
• Intentionally resting
• Being pushed down with disarm intent (but not if actually disarmed)
• Retching and/or vomiting from addictions
• Stuns from being in crit, assuming you don't lose consciousness
• Stuns from bleeding out, assuming you don't lose consciousness (for those action movie hero moments)

Movement but no action:

• Violent twitching
• Being really drunk
• Stuns from some overdoses (omnizine, epinephrine, etc.)
• Coughing violently

[Frank_Stein]

I think also, when people drop things especially from slips, it shouldn't get dropped immediately below them all the time, but maybe get flung out a bit like it was tossed.

The idea of two people fighting, both getting knocked down from an explosion, and having a c-saber/gun tossed across the room for them to race crawl to get to first is exactly the kind of situation a mechanic like this should be created for.

[Grek]

I was thinking something like this for the stamina scale:
200+ stamina: You're perfectly fine. You can use objects in your hands normally.
150+ stamina: You will stand up if you're not in rest mode. You can hit people normally if standing, or in the legs if prone.
100+ stamina: You can pick objects up and, if you're still standing, hit people in the legs with them. You can crawl if you're down or run if you're standing.
50+ stamina: You drop everything and fall over. If you click an item, you can "fumble for" it and move it to a random adjacent tile.
0 stamina: You are unconscious.

And like this for security weapons:
Flash: Knockdown + Disarm, 100 stamina loss.
Taser: 120 stamina loss - 20 per tile of distance. Disarm, no Knockdown.
Stun Baton: Two factors here, intent and targeting. If you aim for legs, you knock them down. If you aim for an arm, they drop what they're holding. Chest is 1.25 stamina damage. Head is x1.5 stamina if they have no helmet x0.25 if they do. Help intent = 0 stamina damage. Disarm = 125. Grab = 125, but you automatically switch to your other hand after the hit. Harm = 180 on self, or 0 + brute damage, depending on if it's on or off.

Essentially, a chest hit mimics the current behavior: they fall over, drop their shit and can't pick anything up or try to crawl away for ~18s. Leg hits put someone down for 6s and forces them to crawl for the next 15s after that. Arm makes someone drop something, but does not detain them. Head will put someone down completely for 30s, but only if you've taken their hat away already. Flashes will make someone fall over, but does not put them out of the fight. Tasers make people drop their weapon (and usually force them to abandon it if they're dodging your shots) but will mostly not put them down.

These dynamics change if someone is on drugs (you might need two hits with the baton) but not enough to make you unstoppable, just enough to incentivize Sec to police drug use if they've got nothing better to do.

Antag stun weapons should do knockdown and <100 stamina damage if you want to let people fight back a bit, or >100 stamina if you want them to have no chance to fight back.

[Noah Buttes]

Harm = 180 on self, or 0 + brute damage, depending on if it's on or off.

unpowered harm batons actually stun people long enough to stun lock them while you beat them to death.

[Grek]

Oh, well, add that in too.

[Mofleaker]

stamina stuff

I wouldn't mind seeing the stamina system get reworked. I haven't been a fan since its inception.

[Dr_Bee]

stamina stuff

I wouldn't mind seeing the stamina system get reworked. I haven't been a fan since its inception.

doesnt help that it doesnt seem to be fully implemented into every facet of combat yet. old style stuns really need to be done away with in favor of stamina damage.

[Weavel]

You fumble trying to grab the Stun Baton!
Isaac Kirkhope is trying to grab the Stun Baton!
You fumble trying to grab the Stun Baton!
Isaac Kirkhope is trying to grab the Stun Baton!
Isaac Kirkhope grabs the Stun Baton!

If you're lying on the ground and not unconscious, you should still have some control of your hands/limbs.
Would make for some fun ambush scenarios too; lie down with a csword in your hand looking like a bloody corpse, then surprise motherfucker you have no more legs

[misto]

If you're lying on the ground and not unconscious, you should still have some control of your hands/limbs.
Would make for some fun ambush scenarios too; lie down with a csword in your hand looking like a bloody corpse, then surprise motherfucker you have no more legs

being able to feign being asleep/ko'd would be cool and help with that too. upon being examined they would look like an asleep/ko'd person. but the examiner would have a chance to see them peeking, kind of like how deathgasp has a chance to fail

[Zadeon]

If you're lying on the ground and not unconscious, you should still have some control of your hands/limbs.
Would make for some fun ambush scenarios too; lie down with a csword in your hand looking like a bloody corpse, then surprise motherfucker you have no more legs

being able to feign being asleep/ko'd would be cool and help with that too. upon being examined they would look like an asleep/ko'd person. but the examiner would have a chance to see them peeking, kind of like how deathgasp has a chance to fail

There's already a chem that does this but makes you look dead upon examining.

[misto]

isnt that chem yknow, for your victims so u can drag em off and finish the job by destroying the body, if somebody else doesnt cook em or toss em into disposals for u, rather than for the user to play dead themselves to lay a trap