The New Nuke (It'll be around forever, eh eh eh)

[Mageziya]

A recent change was made so instead of Nuke-op rounds ending after all Nuclear operatives are killed, late-join antags will spawn instead. I am going to be extremely blunt with this: It's a bad change. The reason it's a bad change is that HUGE swaths of the crew (Along with the 6 Nuke ops) can/will die only 15 to 20 minutes into the round, due to the general nature of Nuke-ops. The result is you've got a lot of people who's reward for fighting the nuke ops is being dead for an hour. I understand this change, which was also applied to wizard rounds, was done as part of a recent trend to extend rounds in general (A trend which I personally don't agree with, but that's not part of the discussion.), but a problem is that the fundamental nature of Nuke ops means it's short as all hell, and trying to change it just doesn't work. Nuke ops will always be short rounds, and they should be left that way. Give the crew a win condition of destroying or permanently disarming the nuke, and just let the round end there.

[BaneOfGiygas]

The reason it's a bad change is that HUGE swaths of the crew (Along with the 6 Nuke ops) can/will die only 15 to 20 minutes into the round, due to the general nature of Nuke-ops. The result is you've got a lot of people who's reward for fighting the nuke ops is being dead for an hour.

There's also the obvious problem of there being a considerably lessened crew prepared to deal with the incoming late-joining antagonists, since most of the people qualified to deal with antagonists (heads of staff, security, particularly inventive and aggressive staff assistants) will inevitably be among the first to combat the nuke ops team, and will subsequently be among the first to get an RPG to the face. This usually leaves the station without a significant portion of its prime antag-fighting team unless the fight against the nuke ops squad was REALLY one-sided, which creates a heavy bias to the favor of late-joining antagonists. Also consider that the only non-antagonist people who are able to end the round are heads of staff or someone with appropriate access, almost all of which are going to be in that aforementioned category.

And speaking of RPGs, what with the rampant destruction caused by the nuke ops team and the desperate and drastic measures that tend to be taken by the crew in response, the station is usually a complete wreck even in the event of a station win, with gaping holes everywhere and a significant amount of the playerbase dead. It's usually enough destruction to merit calling the shuttle and ending the round regardless, but due to the aforementioned issues, the odds of there still being someone left alive to call the shuttle in the first place are greatly decreased.

[Ed Venture]

A recent change was made so instead of Nuke-op rounds ending after all Nuclear operatives are killed, late-join antags will spawn instead. I am going to be extremely blunt with this: It's a bad change. The reason it's a bad change is that HUGE swaths of the crew (Along with the 6 Nuke ops) can/will die only 15 to 20 minutes into the round, due to the general nature of Nuke-ops. The result is you've got a lot of people who's reward for fighting the nuke ops is being dead for an hour. I understand this change, which was also applied to wizard rounds, was done as part of a recent trend to extend rounds in general (A trend which I personally don't agree with, but that's not part of the discussion.), but a problem is that the fundamental nature of Nuke ops means it's short as all hell, and trying to change it just doesn't work. Nuke ops will always be short rounds, and they should be left that way. Give the crew a win condition of destroying or permanently disarming the nuke, and just let the round end there.

I agree and I've seen many people in deadchat say that having the rounds continue after the syndies are dead and parts of station destroyed is pretty dumb. The new syndie mode has turned into another deathmatch mode and from some admin's opinions on REV and Zombie (two modes some admins say are boring deathmatch) you figure they would not want to change a mode into just that a boring deathmatch. I'm starting to feel like more thought should have went in changing the new nuke mode before changing it right off the bat and adding it in right away, instead of doing just that and then working out the issues and the players suffer though the issues as they slowly get fixed or changed for the worse. I don't see why both types of syndie rounds can't exist or be merged together.

Again, the change to not end syndie rounds after all the syndies have died is pretty dumb and I honestly feel like the new syndie mode is a unfun mess that missed the point.

[BaneOfGiygas]

Also consider that the only non-antagonist people who are able to end the round are heads of staff or someone with appropriate access, almost all of which are going to be in that aforementioned category.

By which I mean:

most of the people qualified to deal with antagonists (heads of staff, security, particularly inventive and aggressive staff assistants) will inevitably be among the first to combat the nuke ops team, and will subsequently be among the first to get an RPG to the face.

[Huff H Law]

If the syndicates lose the round doesn't end automatically, which means that the crew, who are risking their lives to stop the syndies, actually want to lose just so the round doesn't drag on forever with some amount of the crew dead.
So uh, make it end automatically for both sides again.

Screwdrivering the nuke almost always fucks up the crew and makes them lose, almost always by someone who has no idea that it makes the nuke work on a one minute timer.
So make the nuke either be able to be screwdrivered back in, to avoid mistakes, or just disable that feature.

If you have any other grievances about the round type then just type them in, but please be respectful.

[Sundance]

Remove the destruction of the nuke.
It favors poor play from the side of the crew, in the form of bombing. There's no counter to that, and it's boring.

Put some form of way that the nuke timer can be increased if the crew get their hands on it.
This could be via hacking if needs be, but the nuke disk would suffice.

Remove the countdown from the screwdriver
Instead, let it halve the time, no matter what time. So if 5 minutes, it goes down to 2:30, if 1 minute it goes down to 30 seconds.

[Megapaco]

I really feel that the Nuke disk should have a use by increasing the nuke timer by two or three minutes that way the crew can have a better chance and the disk isn't treated as another trinket item to throw away. Some may disagree and claim syndicates already have a hard enough job of defending the nuke, but about nine out of ten times the reason for the nuke blowing up wasn't because the syndicates were robust and had a good plan, it's usually just because in the chaos a borg a crew member unscrews the nuke and pretty much ends up getting everyone killed.

That and almost everyone is agreeing that syndicate rounds should end when all syndicates are dead.

[atomic1fire]

I think it would be funny if the Nuke had wires that had to be cut in a certain order.

Red then yellow, kill a fellow

Red then black, friend of jack.

I just really want the crew to look up the florida scarlet snake every time they have to disarm the nuke.

[Gannets]

Just posting to say I agree with hufflaw's points and also these 3 things I said in the other nuke thread.

- Longer timer after unscrewing the nuke.
- End the round if the nuke explodes off-station.
- Put the nuclear bomb on the observe list.

[Vitatroll]

I like the idea of rescrewing the nuke giving you the original screwed time - the time spent on the unscrewed time. It's simple and pretty much keeps things the same.

Even with that addition, making the nuke bomb proof would probably push the balance too far into the nukeops hands. 90% of crew victories seem to be the result of an explosive. Usually an RPG round. Yeah. Keep running around the nuke with those out, folks.

Really though, a minute isn't much to get the nuke to a crusher or off the station. Your only hope is for the nukeops to screw up. If it were made that way (the indestructible route), then I'd like for the disk to stop the unscrewed countdown. That gives enough incentive to take out the Captain. For all the jokes we made, the Captain really used to be an important position (sometimes). Now the Captain really IS just a green all access assistant.

Well anyways. I'll be happy if it's simple. Remember. We're dumb. All of us. No exceptions. This is the one thing we all have in common.

On a side note, I will say I have used the disk to call the shuttle before, so it has a very small use. That is, to carry the command code. Useful for when the other methods are taken out.

If this post makes no sense, I apologize. I'm tired. It'd probably be better if I wrote it drunk.

[Ed Venture]

If the nuke goes off the Z-level then the syndies should automatically lose so it does turn into Syndie rampage #5853.

Found someway to add new items for syndies that encourages Fast entry and tower defense playstyle.

Re-add some aspects of the old version into the syndie rounds or have both versions for variety

Have the announcement that the syndies have arrived tell the crew where they planted the nuke

Give a countdown timer for all to see to show how much time they have left to stop the nuke from going off.

[Grek]

I'm going to make two somewhat controversial suggestions here: Leave the one minute timer for an unscrewed nuke in. Do not revert the change that allows Nuclear Emergency mode to continue if all Nuke Ops die.

Instead, change the victory condition from "get the nuke to the crusher" to "get the nuke out of the area of the station the Nuke Ops placed it."

If the nuke goes off outside the designated area, it still explodes, but does not destroy the entire station. Instead, it blows up a large area (10x10?), but allows anyone outside that area to survive. The round does not end and late join traitors can occur as normal to prey upon the station as they deal with half of Engineering (or whatever) being missing now. One minute still is probably not enough time to get the nuke to the Crusher. But it is enough time to get it somewhere relatively harmless.

[Ed Venture]

Have the announcement that the syndies have arrived tell the crew where they planted the nuke

Seems this already happens my bad.


Also have the round end once all the syndies are dead UNLESS they armed the nuke.

[BlackPhoenix]

I'm going to make two somewhat controversial suggestions here: Leave the one minute timer for an unscrewed nuke in. Do not revert the change that allows Nuclear Emergency mode to continue if all Nuke Ops die.

Instead, change the victory condition from "get the nuke to the crusher" to "get the nuke out of the area of the station the Nuke Ops placed it."

If the nuke goes off outside the designated area, it still explodes, but does not destroy the entire station. Instead, it blows up a large area (10x10?), but allows anyone outside that area to survive. The round does not end and late join traitors can occur as normal to prey upon the station as they deal with half of Engineering (or whatever) being missing now. One minute still is probably not enough time to get the nuke to the Crusher. But it is enough time to get it somewhere relatively harmless.

The biggest reason I've seen most people want nuke rounds to end if the syndicates all die or lose or whatever is because, a -lot- of people are going to die to trying to fight the syndicates if the crew wins. The station is also going to have large areas get blasted. Research sector after a nuke-ops attack is less useful than the bar for mixing chems, or the engine for mixing gasses. It's obliterated. With your suggestion, there would also be a huge hole in the station. You are now faced with the antagonist coming in to a wrecked station to struggle moving around, and a crew armed to the teeth with stolen nuke-ops gear. That isn't fun for the new antagonists, that isn't fun for the crew who died to the syndicates, and it's just lame.

[Anticheese]

Make Security an ineligible place to plant the nuke. A lot of the time there's a ton of apathy towards going in there, since it's easy for a prepared syndicate team to weld/emag several layers of doors shut and get one hell of a head start, AIs are apathetic towards it, and syndicate rounds seem to happen when the server population is low and there aren't any sec officers around that area to begin with.