GENETICS

[BaneOfGiygas]

Let's review the pros and cons of being borged vs. being cloned, shall we?

Borged
+ Kickass (and sturdy, assuming the roboticist is competent) metal body
+ Ability to participate in AI subversions
+ Massive storage of various tools
+ Access to extremely useful modules and upgrades
+ Ability to remotely access electronics and bolt/electrocute doors
+ Immune to poisons and suffocation, don't need to breathe
+ All access
- Loss of free will except in the case of aforementioned AI subversions or emagging
- Inability to harm humans even when being attacked (under default laws)
- Don't really have any "weapons" in the conventional sense
- Can't pick shit up
- Lack of versatility unless your module is switched
- Dependency on the roboticist or anyone else with access for upgrades and getting borged in the first place
- Can be killed without question if the killswitch gets activated
- Much more resource-intensive
- A bit more complicated, meaning that you might not get borged because the roboticist can't figure out how to borg you

Cloned
+ Retain all the versatility of a human being, like the ability to pick shit up
+ Can still murder if necessary
+ No harmful long-term (or even short-term) effects assuming the cloning cycle runs fully, which it almost always does
+ Still have free will
+ Still have independence
+ Extremely simple to perform
= Reliant on a supply of biomass, though this is very easily replenished to the point of being rendered a non-issue
- Reliant on someone actually bothering to scan your corpse and clone you
- Can be cut off by someone shutting down the power, leaving you horribly mutated and probably dead within a few minutes
- Can be easily jumped by nefarious types upon exiting the cloner
- Takes longer

This is by no means comprehensive and is basically off the top of my head, but the pattern is clear. As BruiseCruise said, the superiority of cloning is not up for debate, stifling cyborg production to the point of rendering it redundant.

[Noah Buttes]

No.


Honestly, I think this whole thing with cloning and the genetics nerf has been a huge overreaction.

Seriously, why the fuck do you people want to remove the only RELIABLE way to bring someone back as a human being?


Sure, there's strange reagent, but who the fuck bothers to make and/or buy that?

[Cirrial]

Remove cloning, genetics, and everything relating to them, in my opinion.

[Nappist]

Waaahhhh I don't get cloned and/or can't be assed to use one of the million easy ways to get rid of a body.

[Vitatroll]

Waaahhhh I don't get cloned and/or can't be assed to use one of the million easy ways to get rid of a body.

Very productive opinion you have there.

Anyways. Even though I DNR all the time, my opinion on completely removing cloning is similar to Houka's. I used to be firmly in the camp of removing it completely, but the more I thought about it the more it felt weird. Before anything else changes I'd like to see how the single, nearly public cloner does for a while longer. It gets blown up often, and mechanics (myself included) don't always scan it. Hell, maybe just make it unscannable to boot.

While I don't support removing cloning completely (yet, at least), your other ideas are interesting. While neat, I don't think making the main way to revive people (if cloning got taking out) connected to engineering is a good idea. That puts undue pressure on Engineers to do the same boring engine day in and day out. Now that hellburning has a use it will be done more often. I like this. Though I do wish the station had more heat shielding, but I digress. If it was made to where a hellburn was required to revive, then new or experimenting engineers will be the ones to get drowned in salt. That's not to say I dislike the idea. In style, I love it. We just have to take reactions from all sides in account.

Now. On moving genetics to research? All day long, I say. Especially since the only cloner we have is already out of genetics.

[Nappist]

Very productive opinion you have there.

It's not an opinion. There is only one other reason to want to permanently prevent other people from not being able to re-enter the round short of admin abuse or coming back as a lobotimized slavish metal-man. And it's because you're an asshole and want to prevent people from playing.

If people said remove genetics that would be a different story.

[Bologna Prime]

Waaahhhh I don't get cloned and/or can't be assed to use one of the million easy ways to get rid of a body.

While blunt, this does present the stem of a good point. Usually when a traitor doesn't bother to hide their bodies they're on a rampage with whatever tool of ultra murder they have. Rampages certainly aren't against the rules in any sense but I don't think they should be made easier. One of the consequences of going on a rampage is the mob of angry clones that will make sure to hide your body very well. On a seperate note, removing cloning for more complex and obscure means of revival gives me the idea that somebody bothering to collect the crystals of revival and say the magic word just so the chef or some other non-head schmo can live a non-robotic life will be pretty low. A whole lot of assistant pastimes that involve dying and getting dragged to medbay for revival will see an increase in rarity. People will be more protective of their life, and given the goofy atmosphere of goonstation I feel it actually wouldn't fit too well.

[Frank_Stein]

What if cloning was changed from how it is currently thought of?

Right now, you scan a corpse and then can build new ones of it later. What if, instead, clones were a very limited resource?

Like, say the station starts out with 5 blank clones. Just human bodies, partially developed to the point that they are basically a human, but with no identifying features. When someone dies, you pull up their unique features from a database and finish the blank clone with them to recreate them. The thing is, once you run out of blanks, that's it.

So, now instead of just cloning everyone willy nilly, you have to be strategic with who is cloned. Do you clone the HoS/Captain because of how important they are, or someone who could potentially reveal who the traitor is? Or do you just keep cloning the clown?

[Frank_Stein]

That said, I do like the idea of cross department reliance involved with the Frankenstein idea

[BaneOfGiygas]

What if cloning was changed from how it is currently thought of?

Right now, you scan a corpse and then can build new ones of it later. What if, instead, clones were a very limited resource?

Like, say the station starts out with 5 blank clones. Just human bodies, partially developed to the point that they are basically a human, but with no identifying features. When someone dies, you pull up their unique features from a database and finish the blank clone with them to recreate them. The thing is, once you run out of blanks, that's it.

So, now instead of just cloning everyone willy nilly, you have to be strategic with who is cloned. Do you clone the HoS/Captain because of how important they are, or someone who could potentially reveal who the traitor is? Or do you just keep cloning the clown?

Something like this is along the lines of what I want to see happen. Right now, cloning is just...it's too simple. That's the problem, it's just too simple to just throw a dude in the scanner, click a button, click another button, then wait a few minutes. In a game filled with all sorts of complex procedures, having something as gamechanging and pretty important as bringing back the dead just seems too simple. I put in that list of pros and cons earlier to show the point that the pro:con ratios for getting cloned vs. getting borged are heavily skewed in the favor of getting cloned. Instead of removing cloning entirely, it seems much more fitting to simply fix the obvious bias in game mechanics.

Also:

It's not an opinion.

you're an asshole and want to prevent people from playing.

That sounds like an opinion to me, buddy.

[Waffles64]

I'm not sure how I feel on this. While having to deal with cloning whilst doing DNA-genetics-science-shit is a pain, the cloning is a useful part of the station. HOWEVER, the robotics basically has the same roll, and what's the point of borging someone if everyone would rather be cloned? It'd certainly give robotics a lot more work, which I'm in favor of.

As long as there are other ways to bring back the living (which I believe there are a few ways)

[Dastardly]

It's not an opinion. There is only one other reason to want to permanently prevent other people from not being able to re-enter the round short of admin abuse or coming back as a lobotimized slavish metal-man. And it's because you're an asshole and want to prevent people from playing.

If people said remove genetics that would be a different story.

Ideally people who are killed on one server would just jump back into the game on another server instead of hanging around in dead chat.

I dunno how great that would work out now considering there's usually only one populated server though.

[TheOnlyRyan]

I gotta love how this thread has 17 posts, discussing removing cloning. Something that causes 0 problems, maybe the only problem being not getting cloned in 1 second flat.

Yet no one contributes to the thread for improving the job. Fan-Fucking-TASTIC

[Berrik]

Have clones have a chance to get more bad mutations whenever they cloned. It'll make mutadone a much hotter commodity!

[Dauntasa]

I think the idea that really swayed me is the frankenstien idea ]

Do you mean mine from the other thread, or another one?