Make security "age restricted"

[Dr_Bee]

On here you never get arrested... you either get killed as traitor or ignored as a breaker in/ trespasser.

I've seen plenty of Traitors get arrest. It happens, cause I arrest traitors when I catch them and I know I am not the only one who does.

He's right. This is not about traitors. The only thing security can handle is traitors. What is consistently problem in its handling is petty criminals (B&E, assault, battery, racketeering, blackmail, etc.).

Part of the problem is the player base seems to think that if you aren't a traitor you are immune to arrest. Some jackass will go around busting lights around the station and then scream bloody murder and try to escape when you arrest him and brig him for one or two minutes for it. In fact, the brig is way to easy to escape without help in general. It makes brigging petty criminals a hassle as you have to sit there and watch them for however long their sentence is so they don't break a window with a chair. Other servers have a Warden job for this reason.

[Marquesas]

It makes brigging petty criminals a hassle as you have to sit there and watch them for however long their sentence is so they don't break a window with a chair. Other servers have a Warden job for this reason.

Yes, the playerbase has issues with being locked up. You don't need a special warden to keep watch though, you can always nominate one of your officers to keep watch.

Would additional [security-access] riot suppression gear or objects help? If so, what sort?

[Owlrich]

I think one of the problems I find is the windows the go from the public brig to sec are way too easy to break, thereby making anyone who is not in solitary a potential nuisance or threat. Usually it's a bad idea to brig people there because if they break the window, you'll have this problem the whole round unless someone bothers to fetch the tools or a borg to repair it (and then it's just as easily broken again).

[Sundance]

Other servers have a Warden job for this reason.

pffft. haha
The warden on other servers is literally a do-fuck all job. Y'know why? It's because other servers the brig is locked up tighter than a Mormon's chastity belt. You got individual cells, reinforced walls and windows and floor flashers, all facing a beady eye of one dude who just so happens to have all the fucking guns. It's dystopian levels of awful.

Would additional [security-access] riot suppression gear or objects help? If so, what sort?

Security doesn't need any more riot gear. This would be misdiagnosing the problem to the max. There's on average 1-2 officers on the job, who have to deal with an onslaught of problems and someone smashing lights is akin to spilling milk in comparison to the dudes turning medbay and its adjacent hallway into an inferno.
Giving them better tools will only get them so far, because when they want to slap that dude on the wrist who's smashing lights, well, he's just gonna do what he was does best: Smash his way outta security, and fuck off with a segway.

I said it before and i'll say it again: If you want better control over the brig; redesign the brig. Not an arkham asylum but not a hugbox leave-when-you-fucking-feel-like-it jail.

[Dauntasa]

pffft. haha
The warden on other servers is literally a do-fuck all job. Y'know why? It's because other servers the brig is locked up tighter than a Mormon's chastity belt. You got individual cells, reinforced walls and windows and floor flashers, all facing a beady eye of one dude who just so happens to have all the fucking guns. It's dystopian levels of awful.

so how about we give the brig swiss cheese security and then have the warden be the one poor underequipped fucker to try and keep everyone in line

[Dauntasa]

Would additional [security-access] riot suppression gear or objects help? If so, what sort?

fire hose

[Sundance]

so how about we give the brig swiss cheese security and then have the warden be the one poor underequipped fucker to try and keep everyone in line

In all seriousness, the issue with the warden on other servers is because the brig is so damn tight that it renders his job pointless. He's meant to stop prison breaks and keep the brig/sec area in tip top shape when 90% of the time it's fine so he ends up going braindead in his office of guns he cant use because it's security level blue.

On goon, his job would be a whole lot less pointless actually as he doesn't have access to guns and the brig/sec is normally a hotpoint for traitor/shithead behavior.
Him being under-equipped with the brig the way it is will just end up in:
[149.9] Warden McAwful stammers: HEEELLPPP IN BRIIIIIG
So adding a warden will just add to the shitheap that officers already have on their plate. No.

In contrast to this, making an officer guard shitheads is also kinda bad, when there's chaos ravaging the station.
If there's about 2 officers on the station, and you have a dork in the brig, and your other officer needs back up do you
A) Stay and watch the prisoner, the other officer can handle himself with his peashooter of gun?
B) Back up your officer because if he dies, then you are totally fucked and the prisoner who broke into the bridge ain't worth it.

Most people will choose B)
The problem with B) is that the prisoner shithead that busted into the bridge will break out in literally 2 minutes and busts your brig in the process, so you no longer bother arresting people with minor crimes because the brig is broken and you cant be bothered to fix it when you have 99 problems and clowns ain't one.

You know you can fix this glaringly obvious problem with a glaringly obvious solution: Make the brig more secure.

[atomic1fire]

Would additional [security-access] riot suppression gear or objects help? If so, what sort?

fire hose

Fill a fire extinguisher with water, spray it where the nerds are being turds.

[Dauntasa]

Him being under-equipped with the brig the way it is will just end up in:
[149.9] Warden McAwful stammers: HEEELLPPP IN BRIIIIIG
So adding a warden will just add to the shitheap that officers already have on their plate. No.

"adding an extra guard who stays in the brig makes it harder for security because they might have to go back and help him"

Guess what: having to go back and help the warden club some idiot is better than arresting someone and taking him back to the brig only to find that assistants have broken in, hacked all the doors, smashed all the windows and stolen everything not bolted down


And it's funny that you complained about how on the other stations the brig is a dystopian supermax prison from which there is no escape and then immediately turn around and go "anyway, let's make the brig impossible to break out of".

[BaneOfGiygas]

The ability to diversify your security forces is wholly dependent on how many people bother playing security that round, and you might as well toss a coin to determine if you're going to get an HoS leading a competent, effective team or some poor sap trying to pull the weight of the entire department on his own. In the case of the former, security can deal with petty crime just as well as antagonists, but the latter lone ranger will be lucky if he can deal with just the antagonists. It's hard to balance both scenarios out.

[Sundance]

"adding an extra guard who stays in the brig makes it harder for security because they might have to go back and help him"

Guess what: having to go back and help the warden club some idiot is better than arresting someone and taking him back to the brig only to find that assistants have broken in, hacked all the doors, smashed all the windows and stolen everything not bolted down

My point was that having someone whether it be a warden OR an officer guarding a brig when the brig is somewhat non-functional is compeltely pointless.
Having a job designed to guard a non-functional brig is pointless to the point of obscurity, amongst other reasons that should be plainly obvious.

And it's funny that you complained about how on the other stations the brig is a dystopian supermax prison from which there is no escape and then immediately turn around and go "anyway, let's make the brig impossible to break out of".

I said it before and i'll say it again: If you want better control over the brig; redesign the brig. Not an arkham asylum but not a hugbox leave-when-you-fucking-feel-like-it jail.

Learn to read. The brig needs a redesign where it's more in the securities favor, but there's still a good chance that if you break out that you can escape.
Right now it's just escape when you feel like it. I want a brig designed so that prisoners actually have to use their brains to escape, rather than the dumb click the window till it breaks as it stands.

The ability to diversify your security forces is wholly dependent on how many people bother playing security that round, and you might as well toss a coin to determine if you're going to get an HoS leading a competent, effective team or some poor sap trying to pull the weight of the entire department on his own. In the case of the former, security can deal with petty crime just as well as antagonists, but the latter lone ranger will be lucky if he can deal with just the antagonists. It's hard to balance both scenarios out.

I've been discussing with other HoS qualified players and it seems to be a general feel that there needs to be more hos'. Me and a few others have started to keep an eye on people who use communication and intellect, and mentors who generally get the "feel" of goon. More Hos = more control.
A hos can do a wardens job better than any warden could, and do it in such a manner where prisoners do not feel hard done by.
But in my own opinion when there's no HoS there still needs to be a functional brig that security can manage, and the current brig does not offer this.

[Nubcake]

I feel like a hos should be forced to spawn every round, just like a captain. Also, put ir beams outside the brig windows that send you a pda message if tripped, so you know some jerk is breaking out (or in) through the windows.

Some blast doors you can toggle would be useful too

[Dauntasa]

I want a brig designed so that prisoners actually have to use their brains to escape

This is impossible to do.

I'm not being facetious here: it can't be done. There are only two ways it can go: Either there's a way you can break out of the brig without bringing any items in with you, or there isn't. If there is a way, then after you figure it out or hear about it the first time the brig can no longer hold you and throwing you in is a mild inconvenience at best. If there isn't, then the brig is impossible to escape unless security forgets to take your toolbelt.

That's it, those are the two options. Right now we have option A. All you are really suggesting is changing it to option B. There's no actual sliding scale here, it's just A or B. Yeah, you can make A more obscure or B require more tools but those are just fine points: it boils down to either the brig can't hold anyone or the brig is impossible to escape unless security fucks up massively.

[Frank_Stein]

It's a brig. It should be impossible to escape from, barring Sec messing up, previous planning, or outside help.

Granted, I think using an item randomly won from the arcade machines in there counts as outside help.

[Sundance]

...And this is where we differ because I think there IS a way to make more secure than it already is without making it gestapo. Imo adding anything to the brig right now is an improvement as it's just full on "option a" at the moment. It needs discussion rather than saying "nope can't be done, sorry, move on" otherwise we'll get this constant cyclic bullshit of these security threads cropping up.

I feel like a hos should be forced to spawn every round, just like a captain. Also, put ir beams outside the brig windows that send you a pda message if tripped, so you know some jerk is breaking out (or in) through the windows.

Some blast doors you can toggle would be useful too

This is one of those things that i'm talking about, dauntasa take note.
Adding an IR beam that alerts sec via pda was something that has been suggested before and it's a good idea. Having blast door toggles are also good. This ties in with the TV in brig so prisoners can look when an appropriate time to escape.

More ideas with the above to balance it out:
Add like 1-2 bath salt tablets hidden in the sec toilet so prisoners can resist a stun at the cost of being a raving lunatic.

Add the ability to damage cameras with blunt force. Arrange the cameras in the brig so that there's camera directly in the brig. This way a prisoner can knock out a camera so the security can't yell at the AI to bolt down the brig for them.

Add a beaker in the brig so prisoners can fill it full of water to slip up officers who go in, but also if they have spec glasses that they can check to see what's in ??? pill and if they are any use.

Move remove both disposals from security proper. It's just too easy to escape down into the trash. Instead put it one disposal in security foyer so this way prisoners have to bust more than one window to escape to freedom.

Put locks on the damn security pods.

Put a money bail device in security brig so if prisoners play the slot machine and win big or if they have money anyway, they can shove money in and activate their automated chute. Security can set bail on the timer, and any money that is put in is automatically put back into station budget.