[CLOSED PR] Experiment: Bodies no longer fit in Enzymatic Reclaimers [mdb ignore]

[cheekybrdy]

Personally against, mirroring the opinions relating to lowpop. I do think that corpse management should be more important, but when I think of gamemodes like revs where body disposal is critically important, having a action bar version is probably healthier then the other variants people will do to get rid of a body (e.g.potice). While I do agree with the sentiments of being against self-service in theory, I think this will be a kick in the shins of the lowerpop servers in practice. Medical does need more things to do but adding more hoops to existing things with problems if not incredibly addressed is just going to feel like a slog imho.

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

And that change is for the better.

I personally think medbay being functional without dedicated doctors should not be a thing. And that includes cloning.

I remember how awfull medbay was ~3 years ago on classic. That's what made me leave that server behind and migrate to RP in the first place. And i think we should stay as far away as possible from that self-servicing tiderhell.

hey personally I think people want to stay out of medbay and play the actual game or at least that's the general sentiment. I mean it's a space game not a hospital game or something.

[Kotlol]

 And i think we should stay as far away as possible from that self-servicing tiderhell.

I do agree that doctors over the years been feeling obsolete. <BUT>

At the same time we need ways for staffies to resusitate eachother/revive eachother/heal eachother in case all doctors kick the dang bucket.
And since classic loves bombing medbay....
And RP's doctor count has been severely low lately.

I do think this change is GOOD, but I want "alternatives that just aren't as good."

So if someone dies, they can still be revived within a minute using XYZ, but they will have suffered MAJOR BRAIN DAMAGE for one.
And will have a maximum health/stamina penalty on top of things. They are alive and won't rot.. but they aren't the same.

This is the stuff I want to see next to the medbay changes, because I want two methodes in the game for doctoring.
1: Lazy , fast and cheap, but with a lot of downsides.
2: Intense, long, diffuclt but perfectly heals someone/fixes someone.

Like if an organ fails the doctor can give them medicine but they have to keep giving that medicine to keep it going.
But replacing it is much better, but that requires surgery.

That's the stuff I want to see. Even for Brute/Burn/Tox/Oxy damage.
I want to see the stuff staffy's can do to just be: "Stablize and keep going." But only doctors will fully be able to fix it in medbay.

This is of course heavily off topic, but the cheap fixing would also be good for Low pops. Sure no one will be at 100% on low pop, but atleast they won't be out of the round completely.

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

So if someone dies, they can still be revived within a minute using XYZ, but they will have suffered MAJOR BRAIN DAMAGE for one.
And will have a maximum health/stamina penalty on top of things. They are alive and won't rot.. but they aren't the same.

no offense but this sounds terrible to play as 
nobody likes having permanent injuries especially if you need to go into battle

[mralexs]

Just 2 years ago, you could stick a person in the cloner, scan them, clone them, then recycle their body and have them out of medbay in 3 minutes. Now you'd have to take their disk out of the rack, put it in the computer, clone them, rescan them on the disk, and pray that someone is harvesting all the organs and everything from that body so you can recycle them and clone whoever needs it next. 

And that change is for the better.

I personally think medbay being functional without dedicated doctors should not be a thing. And that includes cloning.

I remember how awfull medbay was ~3 years ago on classic. That's what made me leave that server behind and migrate to RP in the first place. And i think we should stay as far away as possible from that self-servicing tiderhell.

I'd rather have people self servicing while I'm trying to focus on treating people who can't help themselves, gets people in and out of medbay faster. 

I think a root problem with all these nerf cloning PRs is that they just make it more tedious instead of making other options more enticing in a meaningful way. A lot of people will still DNR (at least on classic) if they see you dragging their corpse to robotics instead of cloning them. Maybe we could add some more alternative revival methods? Like bringing someone back Frankenstein style? Or maybe just give medbay more fun stuff to do other than busywork.

[glowbold]

feel free to pr those changes

[Lord_earthfire]

I think a root problem with all these nerf cloning PRs is that they just make it more tedious instead of making other options more enticing in a meaningful way.

I mean, of course they do. Because how are you able to make options that are faster or more safe than cloning? Even if they are, cloning is so effective noone would care to go the extra

Medbay is innsome aspects so strong that it requires a catalogue of nerfs to be in a state you can add interesting features that are worth the effort in comparison to that it starts out at. And we are on a good way of getting there.

As an example:

The nerf of calomel and other purgers opened up the option to make use of the dialysis machine, for example. We had around 3 months without those nerfs and noone used that thing. Now it's the meta tool

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

I think a root problem with all these nerf cloning PRs is that they just make it more tedious instead of making other options more enticing in a meaningful way.

I mean, of course they do. Because how are you able to make options that are faster or more safe than cloning? Even if they are, cloning is so effective noone would care to go the extra

Medbay is innsome aspects so strong that it requires a catalogue of nerfs to be in a state you can add interesting features that are worth the effort in comparison to that it starts out at. And we are on a good way of getting there.

As an example:

The nerf of calomel and other purgers opened up the option to make use of the dialysis machine, for example. We had around 3 months without those nerfs and noone used that thing. Now it's the meta tool

do you guys play the game outside of standing in medbay for 5 years and keeping the forum open or something cuz idk man I play the game and the thought of standing next to a machine like it's my lifeline just to get some chemicals out of me is quite unappealing

nerfs don't make the game better they just take stuff away

[glowbold]

Balance Rework:
Enzymatic Reclaimer
* Organs and limbs provide significantly additional biomatter (~5x) than meat
* Meat cap lowered to 5 (from 10).
* Processing speed increased
* Will not run if no clone pods require meat
* Will no longer try to transfer reagents to full clone pods

Clone Pod
* Reagents dumped into the clone pod itself no longer apply to the occupant; instead, any suitable reagents are converted to the clone pod's meat level.
* You can now click-drag a reagent container to the clone pod to fully empty its contents inside.
* Now accepts IV bags. The contents will be transferred to any in-process clones. There is no access restriction on adding or removing the IV bag.

Meat level reagent Balance
* Receives 0.25 meat per 1 unit of blood, from 0.5
* Recieves 2 meat per 1 unit of synthflesh, from 1
* Receives 2 meat per 1 unit of meat slurry, from 1

QoL
* The clone-pod "Eject" and "Toggle Auto-Mode" are no longer right-click verbs. Use an open hand on the clone pod to access that functionality (if you have proper access).

[ThePowerfulWill]

Feel like we got the worst of both worlds with the rebalance.

The big appeal of the "no full bodies" thing was giving the morgue, Chaplain, and maybe chef, more things to DO. And now they still dont get the additional opportunities, while the biomatter machine is just slightly less efficient.

Since, even if you DO go through the body processing process, you just throw the carcass in too, since its still free biomatter at this point.

[glowbold]

Feel like we got the worst of both worlds with the rebalance.

The big appeal of the "no full bodies" thing was giving the morgue, Chaplain, and maybe chef, more things to DO. And now they still dont get the additional opportunities, while the biomatter machine is just slightly less efficient.

Since, even if you DO go through the body processing process, you just throw the carcass in too, since its still free biomatter at this point.

this testmerge has not been live since the last balance update

[ThePowerfulWill]

Feel like we got the worst of both worlds with the rebalance.

The big appeal of the "no full bodies" thing was giving the morgue, Chaplain, and maybe chef, more things to DO. And now they still dont get the additional opportunities, while the biomatter machine is just slightly less efficient.

Since, even if you DO go through the body processing process, you just throw the carcass in too, since its still free biomatter at this point.

this testmerge has not been live since the last balance update

Im aware, I just dont like the rebalance idea. I may have not phrased it very well. I feel like the idea, while good in concept, will just result in very little gameplay changes.

[glowbold]

Im aware, I just dont like the rebalance idea. I may have not phrased it very well. I feel like the idea, while good in concept, will just result in very little gameplay changes.

reclaimers will still be unable to take bodies; the update notes are tweaks to the PR, not replacing existing changelogs

[ThePowerfulWill]

Im aware, I just dont like the rebalance idea. I may have not phrased it very well. I feel like the idea, while good in concept, will just result in very little gameplay changes.

reclaimers will still be unable to take bodies; the update notes are tweaks to the PR, not replacing existing changelogs

Oh, nevermind then. I misunderstood the PR system. Thanks for the clarifaction.

[Vulwin_Gilran]

Would it be difficult to give extra "biomatter reserves" of various meat pieces and organs based on how many crew there are on station, in the case of helping with skeleton crews? just contemplating if that would help there