[MERGED PR] Removes the security alert HUD button

[JOELED]

Would love to see a testmerge of this, especially after that bug fix implemented from glowbold.  Not sure if this is the change that'll do the trick, but think this is a good direction to angle for

[Lefinch]

I definitely agree regardless it should have a testmerge period if it does get merged. Anything that interacts directly with security/antag flow probably needs a shakedown run.

[Cal]

would be cool if they got an emergency button in their pouch so theyd have to fumble with it or lose it when a monkey grabs it

plus could be used for traps

[Chasu]

(Please note that I haven't played sec in a while, so my experiences aren't the most up-to-date)

I understand the intent behind the PR, but I don't think it'd change all that much.
Those who like the HUD button could just keep the crisis alert program open at all times (which I fear could become a new meta), essentially doing the same as with the current button.
The emergency button idea sounds cool, but I think sec officers already have enough items to manage. Altough I mostly agree with this PR, I'd much prefer mind a middle ground between a one-click-away HUD button and hasty PDA using.
Also, generally, if someone kills/magdumps you faster than you can really respond properly, that's, in my opinion, a matter of escalation (or lack thereof).
Since security and balance changes reach very far into the game's flow, I'm also for a testmerge.
I could see this change being beneficial for inexperienced/quiet RP antags, who usually avoid direct sec confrontation due to not wanting to be caught right away. This might lead to more direct sec/antag interaction as well, rather than chasing after silent murderers.

TL;DR:
Yea sure, let's TM it.

[Annoyed Egg]

This is fine.

However I don't really see it doing much beyond hurting newer players who are worse at callouts (this is bad), and advantaging antags who can successfully ambush and kill in like 3 seconds (I personally don't really mind this tbh). Experienced players will type out decent callouts and a dogpile will ensue, and new players and those dealing with quick killing antags will probably just scream "HALP" over radio - at which point an officer will probably ask AI to locate and then a dogpile ensues. Granted, at least at current main pops I've found sec dogpiles have been relatively dealable by antags once they play halfway smart - vamps, arcs, and wizards are more than equipped when it comes to crowd control, and for the rest of the antags (once they both don't both proverbially and literally back themselves into a corner) most of the time they can just run away.

Definitely keep it for SecAss, putting a similar emergency button in the weapons vendor as an utility item would also be nice for newer seccies but I am unsure on the value it would have for more experienced players and if it would just make the default utility credits purchase be donuts and this or if most seccies would rather not use it. TM would be nice to see what happens.

[Lt487]

I want to see this testmerged so I can see how rounds are going to get a more concrete opinion on this, but in general im fine with this EXCEPT in regards to one issue.
I would wish for sec weapons to be weaker for non sec users to use before such a change comes into the mix. Most likely something just tied to the security training perk that sec gets. The main issue is that a antag getting sec equipment is a BIG DEAL and can be a massive power spike making the antag very very powerful.
(you can also do the wiz treatment for antags that go especially nuts with sec equipment instead that works too)

[avanth]

I'm not much of a fan of this myself, and finding myself agreeing entirely with what Chatauscours and Kotlol has written. I would rather see antags as a whole have additional new ways of dealing with the buttons, rather than having it removed. How that would happen? I'm not entirely sure yet, but I do not doubt that there is something that could be done.

[NanoDano]

I don't think flat out removing the button is a good idea, things happen quickly and having to navigate the pda or even just type in the radio can take a few seconds which is plenty of time to get ko'd and looted in many situations. Which then the antagonist can stun another officer even easier with sec gear.

[Lord_earthfire]

I don't think flat out removing the button is a good idea, things happen quickly and having to navigate the pda or even just type in the radio can take a few seconds which is plenty of time to get ko'd and looted in many situations.

That is a good thing. The problem mentioned in other threads is that attacking single secoffs is not considered worth it.

So if your point comes true, we can consider this PR a sucess.

I would rather see antags as a whole have additional new ways of dealing with the buttons, rather than having it removed.

Disagree here. Antag kit are already loaded with things they need to cope woth all bullshit that gets thrown at them. This makes it very hard to design new antags and overloads ecisting ones. Also, that leaves non-antag, non-security options in the dust. That imbalance is already a problem and should not be promoted further, imo.

[Mouse]

If I spend the resources to drop a secoff or the HoS from full health to dead in five seconds it's annoying to have them still manage to get the alert off without trouble.  It turns the signal jammer from "nice to have" to "absofuckinglutely required if you ever want to off any member of security".

Plus maybe you can add the flashlight back in with the button not being in the UI.  Win-win in my books.

[Chatauscours]

Come on, if you want to prevent an alert from happening or from it being helpful, you have SO MANY WAYS TO DO IT, not just the jammer. I can do it, you can do it, everyone can do it, most are trivially easy and cost almost nothing to do, other than a bit of time sometimes, or up to 1 TC for PDA bombs.

Vampire ice bats, PDA bombs, thieving grappling tool, dragging someone off to space, CO2 flood, stealthy enough KO poisons, arcfiend jamming ability, lube slipping into space, telegunning someone away after the alert, packethacking alerts to send them to 5 different locations at the same time, pickpocket gun will all either prevent the alert from popping or will make it about as useful as those back and forth debates.

And that's just what I can remember from the top of my head.
Yes, you need to prepare a bit for some of them to work it to work. Yes you need to have a plan B. But it works, and you can do it. And a secoff shouldn't be a free lootbag with a baton that you can get as soon as they take 1 step into maintenance alone.

[mralexs]

Another way to counter it is ambush the secoff, run off after they sent it, then hit them again when the cool down is still going and the responders have dispersed. This is the number one thing that has gotten me killed when I play as HoS. I'm not a fan of these PR's that are basically "nerf sec" instead of making changes to help antags play smarter.

[Lord_earthfire]

Vampire ice bats, PDA bombs, thieving grappling tool, dragging someone off to space, CO2 flood, stealthy enough KO poisons, arcfiend jamming ability, lube slipping into space, telegunning someone away after the alert, packethacking alerts to send them to 5 different locations at the same time, pickpocket gun will all either prevent the alert from popping or will make it about as useful as those back and forth debates..

You should probably question yourself why most of these (except the arcfiend jammer) are not used more often.

The fail rate or the effort needed for many of these options is far too high for them to be a counter against a single security mechanic (e.g. KO poisons are too obvious due to multiple nerfs). In contrast, the emergency button drastically decreased the fail rate of calling for help. You can't deny that this was a massive buff to security officers that flew under the radar when the initial PR that introduced the button was approved.

If there would be something like e.g. a telecom dish you could blow or cut from power up to prevent this, now that would be a solution.

[Nerkson]

If the original intent of the button was something for security assistants to press when they get in trouble, then I see no reason why the button shouldn't remain at least for them. Give the assistant role some extra tools to keep them alive longer while they learn the ropes is not a bad thing as well IMO.

[freedo5]

I forgot to post my reply to this lol. Anyway I think this should be testmerged, it seems like one of those changes that you need to see in practice.

Edit: also classic which doesn't have escalation rules might have a bigger use for the button since it's more likely to be killed without notice.