The hygiene meter kind of stinks

[NanoDano]

I heard its to draw people together but from what I've seen most people just speedrun showers or ignore it and have stink lines for the entire round. Personally I don't mind having to take showers, but the stink lines get really annoying, and even though we are on a somewhat """high tech""" space station none of the bathroom doors have locks, and some of the doors are just straight see through(looking at you cog1), so walking in on people happens more than I would like.

I just think hygiene doesn't contribute enough to rp for how much annoyance/awkwardness it brings, I think just removing the stink lines would be nice so people atleast have the choice of taking a shower still

[meaow589]

I usually wash hand instead

[Solenoid]

There was a big discussion on this already, and you're free to go back and read the points there there for more insight, but I think the way hygiene works now is fine. It gets people to move around the station and removing stink lines would probably completely disincentivize people from showering. I played before stink lines were added and don't remember people showering often since it rarely mattered. They can be sort of annoying, I won't lie, but I think it's necessary to get people to engage with it as intended and move around the station more actively.

Also, on locking doors, I don't know if there's a hotkey but most bathroom stall doors can be locked if you right click on them, then select "lock door". I don't think they exist on all maps, but it's nice to know on the maps where they do appear.

[JOELED]

Yeah, the discussion on my original thread never ended up going anywhere, so I just quit RP.

[Kotlol]

No one cares for Hygiene since it doesn't factor much into it.

Any attempt to give it a factor was set with annoyance. So people spammed hand washing to get rid of it, but then the devs wanted us to actually bathe.
But showering is a risk to get your stuff swiped.
Heck when was the last time anyone used the SAUNA?!

The thing is.. it's fun for roleplaying purposes, but not fun for actual purposes.
And if you don't wanna roleplay hygiene it is just an annoyance.

But as I said in that original post, we just need more ways to deal with hygiene that doesn't involve us going to the bathroom.
heck we got toilets but barely use em except for "Toilet humor" ...Cause mechanically they don't do anything cept give plumbers teleportation.

If we want hygiene to have a bigger impact. There needs to be ways to increase hygiene... heck I seen medbay use those "pretty yellow barriers" to give every occupant a nice smell.

But yea.. I don't mind something being there as an option for flavoring. But Hygiene only has 3 ways of dealing with it. Wash your hands and if you can't, take a bath or shower and its solved. There is nothing else to lower it... all of the options feel like a disruption of any fun interactions and unlike drinking and eating.. it crams everyone into the bathrooms wich are spread way too far and wide. While most departments have vending machines and staff rooms or the bar/kitchen near by.

So... to keep it short:
Mechanic that is annoying, doesn't do anything bad, can only be treated in 3 ways, area can get crowded, can get your stuff stolen, has a hard to find and annoying location = Why bother or get rid of it asap.

Change atleast some of these factors and I assure you people will pay more attention to the hygiene.
Especially if like food and drinks it can also give buffs. Like 100% Hygiene + good smell = some lil buff.

[Tyrant]

No one cares for Hygiene

Many people disagree with you.

[Kotlol]

disagree

Mechanically no one agrees with it.
Also just don't this kinda editing is very sloppy and invites nothing to discussions then causing derailment. 
Explain why people care?

But I think everyone ignores and agrees: "It's not fun."

[NanoDano]

I looked at the previous discussion and someone had the idea of removing the natural decay so people would avoid touching gross things, I think if the sources of hygiene "damage" were changed around it could turn it into an engaging stat like hunger and thirst are. Maybe touching or looting corpses could reduce hygiene and if you let it get too low you could get sick, which would inflict related debuffs. Someone else also mentioned janitors getting stinky really fast, which makes sense, however i think their boots and gloves should significantly lower the hygiene damage they take.

[Tribaja]

Maybe tie it to antags somehow, like dogs and changelings could smell your stink and track you by it etc. Would be a crap shoot as to who you could track of course, but it would give an incentive to stay fresh. Tie it in somehow with the wraith plaguebringer path? Maybe add some infections that you can get when you get a bleeding wound while dirty and not going immidiately to wash yourself. (Not full blown pathology again, god no, but simple syndromes) Perhaps some antag items designed to mess with stinky people, just spitballing here, but maybe large flies that only go after dirty people, aggressive cleaning methods like a firehose you could connect to water tanks etc.

Could also add an item to say the medvend that's like a deodorant that you can spray on yourself to lessen it.

Though I do agree with others that the showers are too few and too spread out so fixing that should take priority before adding any incentives that would impact the game play in a more major way.

[Kotlol]

Maybe tie it to antags somehow, like dogs and changelings could smell your stink and track you by it etc. Would be a crap shoot as to who you could track of course, but it would give an incentive to stay fresh. Tie it in somehow with the wraith plaguebringer path? Maybe add some infections that you can get when you get a bleeding wound while dirty and not going immidiately to wash yourself. (Not full blown pathology again, god no, but simple syndromes) Perhaps some antag items designed to mess with stinky people, just spitballing here, but maybe large flies that only go after dirty people, aggressive cleaning methods like a firehose you could connect to water tanks etc.

Could also add an item to say the medvend that's like a deodorant that you can spray on yourself to lessen it.

Though I do agree with others that the showers are too few and too spread out so fixing that should take priority before adding any incentives that would impact the game play in a more major way.

This stuff is what I would want 100%.

Ways to manage, a downside of being tracked by smell and more.

[Silent Majority]

being excessively filthy could reduce healing and potentially cause occasional infections if you're bleeding.

That said

If this was done the rate of decay would need to be dramatically lowered. Accidentally stepping in a small puddle of blood instantly causes you to smell like a shit took a dump.

[Lord_earthfire]

To be honest, we had this discussion already and i don't really see any new points raised than the ones we already had.

It's a mechanic to disrupt the thing you are currently doing and force you to move out of the department. This neans no change to it should enable you to stay in your department or continue on what you are already doing. This is already a probkem with thirst or hunger, which we should maybe enable to damage people, if ignored.

We can talk about actual downsides or reducing the impact of icky chemicals, but there is no reason why we should any way enable to remove or slow down the natural decay.

I may reitetate what i said during the last discussion, but because of the visual impact of the stink lines, hygiene is the best working motive out there.

[Kamikaze Mongoose]

Hygiene rarely makes you leave your department since water is as plentiful as vending machines, but what makes this okay for hunger and thirst is that every setting where you can get food or drinks is a realistic social area and public hygiene areas are not.

Bars? Fantastic place to meet new people or catch up with friends over a bite and a drink. Vending machines or a break room water cooler? Normal places to walk to with a coworker or chat with folks already there. If you didn't have in-game needs players would still go out of their way to these places and perform these activities because they're realistic places to socialize.

...but showering and washing hands? Do you go to these places and mingle with strangers in real life? Would you invite your coworkers or friends to do these activities with you? No, you wouldn't. It's weird.

Hygiene is a mechanic that looks great on paper but is detrimental in-game for the purposes of roleplay enhancement. Any time spent having to remove stink lines is time that could be spent in areas where socializing realistically happens.

TL;DR Hygiene removes social interaction instead of improving it

[Lord_earthfire]

Hygiene is a mechanic that looks great on paper but is detrimental in-game for the purposes of roleplay enhancement. Any time spent having to remove stink lines is time that could be spent in areas where socializing realistically happens.

In short, motives makes you go out of your departments (and we should maybe look at methods like pouring beakers on you and give them a nerf) and to a different destination.

In case of hunger and thirst, it's the bar. In case of the showers, it's a somewhat arbitrary location. This means the socialising does not happen in the showers, but in the public market you walked past while visiting the shower or the changeling turned into a shambler in your way.

In that way, it could be a good idea to look at shower locations and move them more inbetween points of interest.

TL;DR Hygiene removes social interaction instead of improving it

If this social interaction would happen with the person you are RP'ing with all round, this is a good thing.

Game mechanics obviously make you loose time you could use for socialising. If this wouldn't be the case we would be a chatroom instead of a game.

Really, it almost is arbitrary to which place you are forced by the mechanic to go, it can be the bar, the shower, the nerd dungeon. For as long as the mechanic inconveniences enough to move your ass out of the department and somewhere else, it has accomplished its goal. We could replace hygiene with the need to do bodybuilding in the gym and it would suffice.

Vending machines or a break room water cooler? Normal places to walk to with a coworker or chat with folks already there

Vending machines and water coolers are among the reason why hunger and thirst do not work as well as hygiene for shuffling crewmembers around the station.

[Kamikaze Mongoose]

Motives aren't there to make you go out of your departments and run laps around the station, they're there to provide an extra layer of realism that enhances player immersion. What you're championing is a justification for a problem that doesn't exist and the only way to truly achieve it is by removing vending machines and common sources of cleanliness.

The roleplay servers are there to assume an interesting role in a unique environment and players are objectively achieving that; people are clearly enjoying themselves enough to have high player retention at any given day or hour. Socializing close to your work area and sometimes going beyond is a realistic work environment and fulfills the rule of playing like you want to keep your job because it's accurate to real working conditions.

Showering and washing your hands doesn't disrupt stale roleplay situations, it disrupts fun. The forums and discord channels are full of complaints over hygiene because of this and it will continue to come up until it inevitably gets removed.