Removing farts [CONTROVERSIAL AF]

[Spoodle]

Trait idea: Fart Disbelief

[Frank_Stein]

Trait idea: Fart Disbelief

Silent, but deadly

[Ikea]

Honestly just giving farts a five second cooldown (and increasing fart gas production accordingly), would fix 95% of the issues with farts and be easy to implement

[cyberTripping]

I'm in favor of farting being decoupled from engineering because its exceptionally uninteresting mechanically, which makes its requirement for high-level burns even more annoying. That being said, I'm against the wholesale removal of farts. 

I feel like the suggestion of a "fart disbelief" type trait is an absolutely excellent idea, especially if farting is mechanically sectioned off from the TEG. Have the trait entirely hide the fart emote and, if possible, change the fluff of certain mutations for that client. While it would be some effort to cover the mutations, it could be implemented piecemeal over time, and it would be trivial to implement the most important part first (silencing and hiding the basic fart emote). This would let players averse to farts seamlessly opt-out of seeing/hearing them without requiring farts to be totally removed for everyone else. Broader things like the fart azone could be left alone, since they're basically already opt-in, decreasing the total amount of work required.

[Gamebot26]

The fact that this is one of the longest threads on Ideas, and the fact that it was only posted a couple days ago says a lot about this server lmao.
To actually add onto the conversation and not just peanut post however, I think that the best compromise is some sort of option to mute farts. People who like farts get to keep it, and people who don’t can mute it.

[Victoriae]

no fart no soul

[Lord_earthfire]

Honestly just giving farts a five second cooldown (and increasing fart gas production accordingly), would fix 95% of the issues with farts and be easy to implement

I would agree here. A cooldown and a corespondibg increase of the amount of gas released (being changeable by chenms) would work really well.

[Tyrant]

damn i did not expect this much reply (lying)



Do recall that this was specifically about removing it from the atmos system and not actually removing the ability to fart. Biblefarts would still work, just not TEG functions. y'all got way too passionate about the button itself. i really only meant TEG and atmos interactions. that's on me, i should've been clearer



basically opinions boil down to:

• don't care do whatever (why'd you make a reply then?)
  
• GOONSTATION WOULDNT BE GOON WITHOUT FARTS (kind of an odd opinion, goonstation has way more going for it than just farts. Kind of disparages all the other unique stuff we have tbh)
  
• what if we put a cooldown on farts / made it tied into eating, it's too easily spammed at the moment (scope creep, red herring, but still worth considering)
  
• GRR RP PLAYERS TAKING AWAY MY STUFF (ad hominem)
  
• FARTING IS ESSENTIAL TO TEG (it isn't, it just helps out a lot in advanced burns)
  
• we should remove or replace the whole "lets fart into an air scrubber for 4 minutes straight" mechanic in TEG gaming (which is the original point of the post, because it's A. not fun gameplay and B. really a strange thing for engineers to do and C. how come NT has literally no better options)
  
• farts aren't funny (clearly they're funny to some people tho)
  
• cant believe you personally find farts gross, you must be really oversensitive (ad hominem + straw man fallacy, also just rude)
  
• there's way grosser stuff than farts (what-aboutism, red herring, unrelated)
  
• really long heartfelt message explaining about why farts in the videogame helped you get through a tough time in your life or whatever (personally i don't think nostalgia isn't a reason to curtail progress but fair enough)
  

• Yeah but we're not talking about a TEG rebalance, we're talking about removing farts, and since I didn't see many people bringing this angle up I figured I would  give my $0.02

  But we are talking about a TEG rebalance. We're talking about removing it from atmos, not altogether.
  
• It scares off new players (does it really?)
  
• breaks rp immersion (that's down to individual rp'ers tbh, we shouldnt take away freedom of rp. also classic still exists)
  

• yes please we need less fun in this game [and other similar posts]

  you forgot to be kind to others. do better.
  

Anyway
I've had a read through most if not all of these posts.
Take aways (i.e. actual ideas) from this:

1. too much stuff is built around farts to have it ripped out fully. e.g. a whole azone.
   
2. people's opinions on farts encompass a very wide spectrum
   
3. fart cooldown would be nice. prevent spam. could also be paired with larger fart gas volume
   
4. having farts be essential to super powerful TEGs is a strange thing to do. funny, but strange. Maybe make something better than farts (or some gas in farts in low quantities) so that farts become the slightly worse alternative rather than the go-to for people who want that 999YW PTL laser.
   
5. fart disbelief trait/setting to have people not notice farts would be really nice
   
6. rebind farts to ctrl+f to make it slightly more obscure. this could also let f be for flip and therefore R could be resist instead of flip.
   
7. be nicer to people please, some of you are downright aggressive
   

anyway yeah that's the gist
What do you think? which of the ideas 1-6 do you think are correct and good, and which ones do you think are evil cognitohazards that should be purged immediately?

---

i'll probably end up pr'ing fart cooldown, TEG fart alternate, and fart disbelief. Separately, of course. With their own PR threads for you to viciously attack/praise.
Won't rebind farts because idk how that code works, so someone else can do that if they want.

[Kotlol]

In my opinion if it was just for the TEG removal.. and find alternate ways of making "Uber hell burns" then farting.

I have said in a previous fart discussion...
Make them eat beans so their farts are better.. or some sort of way to get a powerful gas that isn't farting in a pipe for 10 mins.

I'd would be nicer if engineering can get a burst of "Fart gas"

Anyway.. a lot of good ideas came up!

[Silent Majority]

My argument was mostly just a silly. Idgaf about farts. But 8f they're removed the clown records and cluwnes need removed.

[Judobum]

[*]having farts be essential to super powerful TEGs is a strange thing to do. funny, but strange. Maybe make something better than farts (or some gas in farts in low quantities) so that farts become the slightly worse alternative rather than the go-to for people who want that 999YW PTL laser

Farts are composed of 59% nitrogen, 21% hydrogen, 9% CO2, 7% methane, and 4% oxygen. "Realistically" methane could be the part of fart that allows its use in high temp burns. Methane could be used as the alternative/new gas in place of farts. For acquisition it could be extracted/fabricated out of char as its the equivalent of coal and both are hydrocarbons and coal typically has methane inside of it in the form of coalbed methane. The can's could be created inside the can fab in engine and would remove the annoyance of farting into an air scrubber while also requiring engineers to cooperate with or request mining to source char for the engine.

[Cal]

[*]too much stuff is built around farts to have it ripped out fully. e.g. a whole azone.

The dev for that azone isn't on the team currently, we'll look into whether they want us to leave it in or what, but don't let it stop you from mechanics. We can work around that.

[*]fart cooldown would be nice. prevent spam. could also be paired with larger fart gas volume

Would be nice.

[*]having farts be essential to super powerful TEGs is a strange thing to do. funny, but strange. Maybe make something better than farts (or some gas in farts in low quantities) so that farts become the slightly worse alternative rather than the go-to for people who want that 999YW PTL laser.

I actually despise farts in the TEG, I've seen people tinkering with molitz b trying to utilize it in the engine only to be told "wtf just fart for 5 minutes." Feel free to gut it.

[*]fart disbelief trait/setting to have people not notice farts would be really nice
[*]rebind farts to ctrl+f to make it slightly more obscure. this could also let f be for flip and therefore R could be resist instead of flip.

Sure. Fine with both of those.

[*]be nicer to people please, some of you are downright aggressive

Let us know via a discord report or the forum's report function if someone on the forums is out of line. We'll take care of it.

i'll probably end up pr'ing fart cooldown, TEG fart alternate, and fart disbelief. Separately, of course.

Sounds great.

[LDrizzle]

I Wanted to give my two cents on the issue here

1. Personally, I think the outright removal of farts wouldn't be great, especially with most general reasonings seeming
fairly unnecessary to me, I personally believe a "Fart disbelief" esq trait would work fairly well as a few others have
already pointed out.

2. Removal from the TEG; I'm not 100% opposed to this, but I think removing it completely would be alittle too far,
its one of those things that a CE can show a new player for the reaction of "I can't believe that fucking works what the
hell.", and I love those moments, but I might not be the majority there. I Think nerfing it into the ground is fine though,
as far as I'm aware o2 still works for pipeburns, and I prefer that mechanically to farts anyway, no 5 fart minute set-up and
forces the player to use the purge valves for once, but I think some tuning to that mechanic would be nice if it became
the primary way to pipeburn.

3. Reasons for outright removal;  I Think people have brought up some genuine concerns regarding its removal,
that were unfairly dismissed as being some disingenuous debate tactics, I can't speak for the people who brought up their issues,
but my personal interpretation of them was:

  "Blood is gross, what about that?" I Think when people say this its out of concern for a blurred line on removal,
   personally I think its fine removing things that say, 80% of players think is gross, I just don't think thats the case here
   and I believe that's the comparison people are trying to make when they mention blood & gore.

   "goonstation has farts at its core" I've seen most peoples reply to this being generally that there is a ton of things
   unique about goon and farts really don't have to be at the front of that line, I agree, but I do think they hold some value
   to goon being goofy, and I think that has merit, though perhaps that is for a different discussion for another day.

4. The original thread post; I Know this is a thread and its kind of a pot for ideas and reasoning's, but considering people
don't understand whether its an outright removal or TEG removal that is being suggested, I think the original post was far
too vague and only served to fuel an already heated conversation and could use a rewrite or clarification so people are
on the same page atleast.

5. Misc comments I thought were worth being brought up;

   "cooldown for farts is scope creep", I really want clarification on this,
   I just don't really get what scope creep a 5 second cooldown would receive.

   Regarding posts that say they don't care: I Think these are important, gauging whether a mechanic is used or cherished by many
   should be an integral part of deciding what should be done with it.

   Behavior in the thread: Alot of replies have been pretty heated and in some cases rude or dismissive on people, and I felt
   the need to also point out that the original post seemed kind of inflammatory to the discussion being vague and blunt,
   obviously that isn't a reason to be mean or to take hits at someone, but I think it is worth mentioning as the original post
   I feel really made a negative impact on the discussion before it began, but that's my opinion and I might just be a fool.


As an ending statement, I am looking back on this wall of text and realizing how insane it is for me to be this passionate
about a fart mechanic, but I still stand by it.

[Tyrant]

fair enough