Add a new Saltpetre recipe because industrial amounts are unpleasant to make

[ohjoy]

tl;dr: Add a new Saltpetre recipe like `(1) Nitrogen + (1) Compost + (1) Potash -> (3) Saltpetre` or something else that can be made in Botany to meet the needs of Botanists.

SITUATION:
This post was originally going to be a subsection of another post about potato batteries and potato cells, but I realized that for full Botany crews, Saltpetre is difficult enough to obtain that it warranted its own post.

There are three ways of obtaining Saltpetre:

1. Use 2010 Vintage.
   
2. Order some from Cargo.
   
3. Make urine yourself.
   

All of these are inadequate for making very large (5,000u to 10,000u) amounts of Saltpetre (necessary when trying to maximize plant stats, even more so with a full crew):

1. Use 2010 Vintage: Uncommon and difficult to obtain in large quantities.
   
2. Order some from Cargo: Acceptable for lesser amounts of Saltpetre. Cargo can reach 1,000u with 5 Medical/Hydroponics Vending Machine Restocking Packs (1000u / (40u per bottle * 5 bottles per restock * 1 restock per crate) = 5 crates) but expecting them to reach 10,000u with 50 crates is cruel and unusual. Potash does not count for reasons I will elaborate upon below.
   
3. Make urine yourself: Unviable, and also why Potash is not counted above. You need to drink 10 times to produce 4u of urine, which only produces 12u of Saltpetre. You can obviously drink less than 10u per gulp, but to produce urine with any amount of speed (by taking advantage of chugging) you will need to drink 10u per gulp. This means you need to drink 100u to produce 4u of urine.
   • Urine has a chems consumed to chems produced ratio 25:1, one of if not the worst out of any in the game. 
     
   • Producing urine is very slow, at 4u per 10+ seconds.
     
   • Drinking plain water will make you rapidly hit the 330u cap, at which point drinking to produce urine becomes infeasible. You could splice several fruits for their juices and grow some Venne, but this will only delay reaching the cap, not prevent it, at which point urine production slows to a crawl.
     

SUGGESTIONS:

• Add another recipe for Saltpetre that can be made in Botany, perhaps by substituting Urine for something else. Plain Nitrogen would be fine, since we can make that with Beans and it's not horrifically far off from how Saltpetre is actually made.
  
• Add a Pee plant as a mutation of the Pea plant.
  
• Make any of the following chems diuretics: Ethanol, Water, Sugar, Mannitol, Coffee.
  Visit here for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diuretic#M..._of_action
  Diuretics can have one or more of the following properties:
  • Increase urine each life cycle.
    
  • Increase urine when consumed.
    
  • Increase urine gained from other chems when comsuming them.
    
  • Increase urine produced when peeing.
    
  • etc.
    
  Preferably enabling me to constantly `*piss` without waiting.
  

I understand there have been issues with "serial pissflooders" in the past, so I imagine the first suggestion is most preferable.

[Kotlol]

I am fine with botany finding ways to get more ways to getting the chems they need to maximize their gimmicks.
A PEE PLANT IS HILARIOUSLY ON BRAND!

But I got another idea. CRANBERRIES.
Mutate or increase the potency of these suckas and now the water is 1/1 in units to pee.
Also it removes the urine cap since it increases it fast.
Also this allows people to make food that makes people have to pee, thus peeing their pants. A perfect clown gag.
Since eating alot of it will make you pee and maybe cause dehydration or something?

Eh anyway... this also gives kitchen the abillity to make cranberry pie and cranberry sauce. THANKSGIVING IS SAVED!
Also it's a lil silly to have Cranberry juice and not being able to grow cranberries no?

Also the potato cell/battery talk, I am partial responsabilty for that too, so hey.
Eitherway I think this is a better idea since Saltpetre is the chemical that runs out the fastest next to Potash.

IRONICLY... beaker artifacts also spawn mostly filled to the brim with Saltpetre, but again.. that's just RNG hoping.. and hoping science gives it to you insted of emptying it and using it themselves. So overall... more ways to make saltpetre seems fine unless I am missing something XD

[Cal]

There's golden peas which contain ammonia iirc

[ohjoy]

There's golden peas which contain ammonia iirc

Ammonia is not a Urine substitute for making Saltpetre, unless a recipe is added to make it so. However, it is my understanding the Ammonia is actually a byproduct of certain Saltpetre production methods, hence why I suggested Nitrogen instead. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_...Production

[Decarcassor]

All of these are inadequate for making very large (5,000u to 10,000u) amounts of Saltpetre (necessary when trying to maximize plant stats, even more so with a full crew):

While its true that saltpetre can run out pretty fast with multiple botanists using it liberaly, I can't see any reason why you would need this much for anything other than Omega weed. You are not supposed to infuse everything. Tray chemistry is fine for 99% of botany work and consume very little reagent. Especially if you use a botany mister. But maybe I'm missing something.

My main gripe with saltpetre is the QM restock. Specifically the packaging. Having to go through multiple small 40u bottles when you need to do a lot of infusions is a bit tedious. Nutrient crates contain a bit of everything wich end up laying about on the floor in botany because you only want the saltpetre. The only way you can order saltpetre exclusively is through Bufford who offer it randomly and still comes in annoying little bottles.

So my suggestion would be that nutrient crates come in big cans instead of tiny bottles.

[ohjoy]

All of these are inadequate for making very large (5,000u to 10,000u) amounts of Saltpetre (necessary when trying to maximize plant stats, even more so with a full crew):

While its true that saltpetre can run out pretty fast with multiple botanists using it liberaly, I can't see any reason why you would need this much for anything other than Omega weed. You are not supposed to infuse everything. Tray chemistry is fine for 99% of botany work and consume very little reagent. Especially if you use a botany mister. But maybe I'm missing something.

My main gripe with saltpetre is the QM restock. Specifically the packaging. Having to go through multiple small 40u bottles when you need to do a lot of infusions is a bit tedious. Nutrient crates contain a bit of everything wich end up laying about on the floor in botany because you only want the saltpetre. The only way you can order saltpetre exclusively is through Bufford who offer it randomly and still comes in annoying little bottles.

So my suggestion would be that nutrient crates come in big cans instead of tiny bottles.

Tray chemistry is too slow for what I'm doing, which is reaching plant stats in the high 100's to low 1,000's. Infusion is mandatory, which is why I need very large amounts of Saltpetre.

[Decarcassor]

Tray chemistry is too slow for what I'm doing, which is reaching plant stats in the high 100's to low 1,000's. Infusion is mandatory, which is why I need very large amounts of Saltpetre.

I'm gonna guess you are infusing potatoes, since you mentionned it in your first post. Potato cells have very low capacity with weak potency scaling. It seems to be by design. So if you are trying to get potato cells that come close or even outlcass standard cells capacity, that would indeed require an absurd amount of saltpetre, even beyond Omega weed. But this is a potato cell issue, not a saltpetre availability issue to me.

[ohjoy]

Tray chemistry is too slow for what I'm doing, which is reaching plant stats in the high 100's to low 1,000's. Infusion is mandatory, which is why I need very large amounts of Saltpetre.

I'm gonna guess you are infusing potatoes, since you mentionned it in your first post. Potato cells have very low capacity with weak potency scaling. It seems to be by design. So if you are trying to get potato cells that come close or even outlcass standard cells capacity, that would indeed require an absurd amount of saltpetre, even beyond Omega weed. But this is a potato cell issue, not a saltpetre availability issue to me.

As stated in my original post, this was originally a potato cell issue, but I came to realize that this is a general Saltpetre production issue from my experiences of trying to make Saltpetre with a full crew.

[MomoBerry]

Personally wouldn't mind saltpetre being easier to make, although black powder bombs are probably the main issue with the people that are against it, I would guess.

[Kotlol]

Personally wouldn't mind saltpetre being easier to make, although black powder bombs are probably the main issue with the people that are against it, I would guess.

Had feeling there was a reason it was limited.

[ohjoy]

Personally wouldn't mind saltpetre being easier to make, although black powder bombs are probably the main issue with the people that are against it, I would guess.

I'll break Black Powder down and hopefully somebody more experienced in killing can give us a threat analysis:

• Charcoal: Easy to obtain. Grab some paper, a lighter, and a salt shaker from the cafeteria.
  
• Sulfur: Requires a chem dispenser.
  
• Potash: Easy to obtain. Grab some paper, a lighter, and some water.
  
• Urine: Easy to obtain, but slow.
  
• Compost: Requires compost tank.
  

In summation, Saltpetre is slow and requires a compost tank to obtain, unless they have a Saltpetre bottle. So Black Powder requires a compost tank and a chem dispenser and is slow to make unless they have a Saltpetre bottle.

My suggestion of Nitrogen replacing Urine gives Saltpetre two additional methods of being made:

• Chem dispenser.
  
• Bean plants.
  

This means Saltpetre can be:

• Slow
  
• Fast (Chem dispenser)
  
• Reasonably fast (Bean plants)
  

But still requires a compost tank.
So Black Powder would require a compost tank and a chem dispenser, and would not be slow since a chem dispenser is present anyways. 

I think the main concern is: would letting Urine be substituted for Nitrogen make it too easy for antagonists to obtain Black Powder in comparison to the other explosive chems? I think we need some experienced antagonist players to weigh in on this, but my suspicion is that it would be too easy, which is very unfortunate.

If there is really no other way to time-gate Black Powder, then so be it. Maybe setting the Saltpetre reaction at a certain temperature, or making it release a toxic cloud like Cyanide, or making it blow up a little on mixing, but I don't know if any of that would even do much at all.

[TDHooligan]

as far as i can tell the sole reason urine is there is so you have a hard time making it, getting to 1000 potency is supposed to be backbreaking.

but you can also use an empty glass for 20u of urine, much faster than splashing puddles into it.

[Kotlol]

as far as i can tell the sole reason urine is there is so you have a hard time making it, getting to 1000 potency is supposed to be backbreaking.

but you can also use an empty glass for 20u of urine, much faster than splashing puddles into it.

Remember this system was originally made when shifts were longer especially on RP... not sure on classic.
So now it's grueling... due to time? Eh.. whatever.

I'd say making it slightly easier wouldn't be the worst thing.

[Drewmajor11]

Unsure if mentioned yet but just saying; you can order saltpetre and a ton of nutrients at QM.

[Kotlol]

Unsure if mentioned yet but just saying; you can order saltpetre and a ton of nutrients at QM.

Yea but you get alot of other junk for 1 thing.. that's the problem.
Also it costs some K's to order it. Wich the QM may not want to spend.