[CLOSED PR] Removes Secoff lite AA from RP

[DioChasek]

Anyway removing the access only is going to do one thing. Add additional stress to the AI with constant requests from sec to open doors to random areas that a station security team should have access to.

[nefarious6th]

If sec is using their enhanced access to push people out of jobs please ahelp it. A lot of the problems brought up are rules issues rather than sec access issues.

Pretty much this. As a Sec officer I think it's a good idea to be a supportive role in departments that need it.
Yes I did a few times push doctors out of the way in medbay to heal myself since I am mid chase and nearly dieing.
But I don't really have time at these moments to wait for a doctor to come out of their conversation and heal me.

Infact I once was critical as a detective and I waited for a doctor to heal me while a chase was going on. It took them nearly 10 minutes to recover me.
For some reason I didn't die... but it did tick me off to NO HELL!
This is where I "personally" exempt the rule of "stay in your lane" if someone is RPing an incompetitent doctor and wants to give you a new heart to heal your toxin damage... while there is a traitor on the loose with a bomb. I think at that point self medicating isn't the worst. Infact... Sec has 1st aid kits so I consider it not too much.
Same goes for cloning.

I will be brunt and say I sometimes as Detective or Sec officer 
Cargo not selling an artifact that is making noise for 5+ mins? Guess I am going in there and pushing it out. (I even done this as a scientist to force an Artifiact to be shipped)

There are just so much moments where people in RP just "Stop functioning" to do their job cause something "Funny is happening" and they wanna watch it or join in even though it's NOT THEIR JOB to join. (Such as Sec beating up a changeling and they wanna join into the fighting)
This especially happens when there are emergency situations their departments have to solve that if they don't get to it.. the shift has to end early
Heck... lately alot of meteors been getting free pug shots at the stations even with 60+ people cause QM won't order shields...

I'm not sure this is entirely relevant because Thread Topic, but just some items of clarification that might help in broader understanding of some of these issues being experienced:

- some noisemakers are not only loud but do ear damage or stun. if you've asked and no one is sincerely taking care of it or responds, then maybe look into flagging a scientist to help you move it. Otherwise, it's entirely possible the RD who is aware of the noisemaker and who has said so multiple times and has said they have a plan to get rid of it might just be grabbing earmuffs to be able to effectively sell it. Part of that gameplay loop is selling for money artifacts that are annoying and sometimes dangerous and running in and spacing their work probably doesnt make a lot of people too thrilled if they are already working to resolve it in one method that's meant to support their gameplay and dept.

- there is a current bug with meteor shields where the meteors go through the shields and hit the station. it is not always lazy QM or engi that's the reason the station gets breached, there is an actual verifiable bug thwarting the efforts of engi dept players right now

- sec's job is to stop crime and prevent it from escalating. it's not to Be the Only People On Station Allowed to Fight. If there's a known hostile and destructive antag on station that poses an immediate threat to people regardless of their dept or job, then I dont know why people expect them to back off and run away with their tail between their legs or better yet, pretend like it isnt happening. Antags on RP are valid. Anyone can fight them. Sec doesnt get a monopoly on this.

[Yellow]

Hm I do really like the idea of sec not having access to engineering tool storage though, while I don’t agree with the rest. I think that proposal should be seriously considered

[Cal]

why would they not have access to tool storage? To make it more annoying for them to get materials to fix the station when Engineering is absent?

[Ikea]

There’s always materials elsewhere and the station wont crumble if theres a hole in a place a little bit longer, though tool storage removal alone doesnt seem like itd do much because people would just go to mechanics, so removing mechanics too seems fine if this is a road people want to take. If we do decide to sweep up roleplay sec access, it should be focused on things that are just used by secoffs to empower themselves which have minimal social interaction attached.

[Mrprogamer96]

Personally, this will likely made more problems then it will solve and I think the main thing that will come out of it is more Sec Offs heading to the HOP at the start of the round.

[nefarious6th]

There’s always materials elsewhere and the station wont crumble if theres a hole in a place a little bit longer, though tool storage removal alone doesnt seem like itd do much because people would just go to mechanics, so removing mechanics too seems fine if this is a road people want to take. If we do decide to sweep up roleplay sec access, it should be focused on things that are just used by secoffs to empower themselves which have minimal social interaction attached.

Last point I think words this better than anything i could've thought of to verbalize why i think theres a differentiation between sec access to the engine core vs genetics, but yea. That i think is exactly the wording that pulls my thoughts out of mist and into something semicoherent.
Tox, art, gene and mech lab being biggest offenders I think

Though art and gene lab may require more anti-monkey robustness training for employees then or something lol

[MoonJesus]

Why would the team trusted with protecting the station not have access to most of it?

Easy there Rudy

[DioChasek]

On rp especially security needs to be held to a higher standard in a lot of ways. There are very few problem players in my experience and this is coming from someone who rarely plays sec. Shrinking sec access on rp is silly for several reasons. In universe it makes no sense that a team dedicated to protecting the station can’t access departments that notoriously need security backup regularly, there is the additional gameplay consideration that seconds can count in emergency situations say a ttv by a shit level antag/self antag trying to grief going off seconds which you lose every time you have to have the ai open a plethora of doors that you don’t have access to.
All it does is punish sec players. On rp a person who is consistently power gaming can be ahelped and eventually job banned or more if the situation warrants. Meanwhile the people who are worth a damn are left with inconvenience, and more complaints along the lines of “I radioed for security to come” meanwhile they can’t get in the front door because the ai is afk, the HOS is not on tha Captain is drunk and the HOP can’t be found.
I know you think it will help but all it will do is frustrate people.

[Oremir]

I'l also chime in that i'm generally against this. Allot was already said by other people, seems like some of these issues can be fixed by people just ahelping it.
If you really want to reduce access maybe reduce locker/jobvendor access specifically but i wouldn't touch door access, when someone is being murdered sec needs to be there.

[Kotlol]

I still say the detective and security assitants should be the ones with limited access, while sec officers have all the access they need (minus command)

It keeps assistants and detectives nicely in their lane as security. As they are assisting security and they might have to be creative to keep their job going. It just sucks if they are the only security (wich happens on low pop servers), then you get the situation of: "SEC HELP!" ... "I can't.. im detective" ... "AI is offline" ... "Captain is cryo'd/SSD" "No HoP or head's available" ...
WICH YES! Did happen once on a low pop rp server. So it's rare... but taking this.. means on low pop if you are the only sec officer.. thus making these situations more common especially on Low Pop hours.

Also also.. if sec officers have less access. I see less point in rolling Security officer and just being detective forever. Cause the det's tool kit is much more effective then securities tool kit in RP. Sure I don't have port-a-brig in the pda and need the remote. But effectively I am much more effective then a sec officer when it comes to crime solving, having REMOTE security record access and camera access in 1 device (also a faster way then secmate). I have gun that can't be EMP'd and have lethals from the go. I got The best tools to investigate a crime. And I can get any tool with some time that sec has (cept their weapons). And I can access their ammo as well.

So yea it took me a moment add this, but lower sec officer's access will effectively make sec officers WORST then the detective. As someone who mains detective, I sometimes want to play Security officer then be able to get around the station easier so I can help people. But removing that semi AA on them.. makes me go: "Why bother? Det has the better tools"