Pirate Market

[TDHooligan]

to be honest i'm happy with most of these besides the whole 'steal from security' thing.

it would require them to be coded up but these are the obvious things i'd change:
- add them in as regular traders
they will be fine and the standard trader lineup needs some pizazz anyway

- remove encouragement of stealing sec gear:
its been covered before, just make monty buy donuts. not every trader needs to be easy to make money from
buying out phasers and stuff is okay, that stuff is lame and replaceable

- remove purchasable stun batons:
they were removed from security lockers because nerds rushed them. this will merely change 'break into sec' to 'hack the banking computer for funds'

[Deadvickyart]

to be honest i'm happy with most of these besides the whole 'steal from security' thing.

it would require them to be coded up but these are the obvious things i'd change:
- add them in as regular traders
they will be fine and the standard trader lineup needs some pizazz anyway

- remove encouragement of stealing sec gear:
its been covered before, just make monty buy donuts. not every trader needs to be easy to make money from
buying out phasers and stuff is okay, that stuff is lame and replaceable

- remove purchasable stun batons:
they were removed from security lockers because nerds rushed them. this will merely change 'break into sec' to 'hack the banking computer for funds'

Okay for these points,

- add them in as regular traders
Sure - but in addition to them being accessible at the space diner, the market and security and the caveat that it sticks to the same 15 minute rotation timer. It's effectively one trader with 100% avaliability who rotates their stock and face anyway. Diner and market need more traffic, people with low access need more things to spend cash on. Cargo will still have its own thing going on (every other trader) but this lets them easily delegate chores to staff assistants and gives those staff assistants things to do. Even if that's stealing from the chapel's collection plate, stealing station equipment or fucking around with erabite batteries, a clear goal beats undirected bored griefing.

- remove encouragement of stealing sec gear
Disagree with this, currently the reward for robbing security is security gear - and while that's nice and all, it isn't for every antagonist. There isn't much you can do with the gear except fight better, remove your criminal status on huds and write funny tickets. There's also plenty of rule kosher ways for non-antagonists to get their hands on this shit (space salvage, adventure zones, buying it in QM to sell on the market, just picking it up off the ground after a bombing to keep it out of criminal hands, etc). Technically, if an officer dies in cargo and you're selling it for station funds it isn't even a crime - you're just moving equipment from one department to another. I'm sure that's defensible somehow.
The time element is key to stopping people abusing it, if they're not stealing gear in that 15 minute window they're forced to sit on the loot for 45 minutes and that's all time that security can chase the lead and enforce justice. It even gives the officers an excuse to stake out the location, making the space diner a little livelier. Going undercover as Shitty Bill is always great fun and surprisingly effective on vampire and changeling rounds already.

- remove purchasable stun batons
This seems to be a sticking point, and while they are powerful I'm going to stand by it. Anyone who can break into mechanics or the disused mechanics lab near the diner can already turn mining materials into stun batons, and they don't even need to *steal* the baton to do this. Just slip an officer, and scan with a device analyser. This is a weaker alternative that involves engaging with goon's cash system instead and leaving more evidence for the detective to engage with. Security officers need a way to replenish too, and I've seen the current security equipment crates (avaliable 24/7) complained about a lot so this could replace that if anything.

As for *buying* batons, I've given this a rethink. Security gear should still be buyable, but the batons are a little too reliable and vital. For a security guard, it's like losing an arm. To the more experimental robocops that the robotics department churns out, it is sometimes *literally* losing an arm. Stuff like tasers, taser-shotguns and donuts are more luxuries they can afford to lose and helmets, handcuffs and security HUDs are easily replaceable.

-they were removed from security lockers because nerds rushed them. this will merely change 'break into sec' to 'hack the banking computer for funds'
Banking computer is a whole other issue. I'm not going to balance around it and dealing with it is outside the scope of this addition.

[Deadvickyart]

So I'm thanks for the criticism and taking what people have said into account, I've reworked and completed DR KILL. Is this good enough for a trial run as a feature? (note that haggling can push prices around 30% in a player's favor):

Shady Jane's Back-Alley Deals

Avaliable:    XX:30  -  XX:45

Buys:

2,000,000 Credits - Head of Security's Beret

"There's a bunch of rich teenagers out there on Space Ferry 08, think it's cool to buy these berets and pretend to be syndicate super agents. Get me a legit one and I'll sell it on to them, split the profits with you."

220,000 Credits - [name]'s Butt
"Long story short, there's a price on that butt's head. Presumably it's attached to [name]. Please remove it before delivery."

200,000 Credits - Barrier
"The use of these minature holoprojectors is banned across most of space because of their potential as weapons. Some of my contacts are smugglers, and they'll pay huge amounts for them."

150,000 Credits - [random trinket]
"There's an estranged relative out there who will pay big bucks for this."

150,000 Credits - [random trinket]
"The space mafia wants to send a message. To someone."

80,000 Credits - Taser
"I need all the nonlethal weaponry I can get. Tasers, taser shotguns, taser SMGs or even wave guns. It's all for a friend, honest."

60,000 Credits - Hypospray

"There's a market for these. I can strip the ones I don't sell for parts."

10,000 Credits - Pipe Bomb
"Always useful, and always a top seller."

Sells:

XXX,XXX Credits - [random syndicate item]

Approx. 90k per TC value, High Value Whitelist*
XXX,XXX Credits - [random syndicate item]

Approx. 60k per TC value, Low Value Whitelist*

XXX,XXX Credits - [random syndicate item]

Approx. 60k per TC value, Low Value Whitelist*

120,000 Credits - Modified Hypospray
"There's a chip on these hyposprays that make them accept only pre-approved medicines. Lot of people don't like that, so I short out the chip so it doesn't flush out 'alternative medicine'. Accepts all liquids, guaranteed."

99,900 Credits - Modified Cyberliver
"This one has its prototype functions installed, and can heal you as it purges ethanol."
80,000 Credits - Modified Cyberappendix
"Jailbroken. Has a healing protocol installed, and a port to charge PDAs."

60,000 Credits - Modified Cyberspleen
"This spleen has its safety mechanisms disabled and a supercharged blood production gland. If you get this implanted, your blood pressure will spike and you will die. A surprising amount of people buy these."

80,000 Credits - Gamergy® Branded Cyberheart
"Bunch of these fell off the back of a space-van a while back on their way to a promotional event on Earth. Apparently they have extra ram, upgraded microcapillaries and rainbow LED lights."

9,900 Credits - Insulated Gloves

900 Credits - Mechanical Toolbox

300 Credits - Fire Extinguisher

200 Credits - Multitool

180 Credits - Gas Mask

140 Credits - Oil Can

60 Credits - [random colour] Jumpsuit

60 Credits - Balaclava

*High Value Whitelist:
6tc - Old Hunting Rifle, Space American Football Kit, Cursed Clown Mask
4tc - Syndicate Device Analyzer, Stimulants, Rad Poison Crossbow, Agent Card

*Low Value Whitelist:
240,000 Credits - Laser Rifle, Trick Revolver
180,000 Credits - Holographic Disguiser
120,000 Credits - Slip and Sign, Syndicate Omnitool, Floor Closet
60,000 Credits - Voice Changer, Stealth Storage, Trick Cigarettes, Hotbox Lighter, Syndicate Mailman Suit, Miniature Bible, Spy Sticker Kit

[mralexs]

So I'm thanks for the criticism and taking what people have said into account, I've reworked and completed DR KILL. Is this good enough for a trial run as a feature? (note that haggling can push prices around 30% in a player's favor):

Shady Jane's Back-Alley Deals

Avaliable:    XX:30  -  XX:45

Buys:

2,000,000 Credits - Head of Security's Beret

"There's a bunch of rich teenagers out there on Space Ferry 08, think it's cool to buy these berets and pretend to be syndicate super agents. Get me a legit one and I'll sell it on to them, split the profits with you."

220,000 Credits - [name]'s Butt
"Long story short, there's a price on that butt's head. Presumably it's attached to [name]. Please remove it before delivery."

200,000 Credits - Barrier
"The use of these minature holoprojectors is banned across most of space because of their potential as weapons. Some of my contacts are smugglers, and they'll pay huge amounts for them."

150,000 Credits - [random trinket]
"There's an estranged relative out there who will pay big bucks for this."

150,000 Credits - [random trinket]
"The space mafia wants to send a message. To someone."

80,000 Credits - Taser
"I need all the nonlethal weaponry I can get. Tasers, taser shotguns, taser SMGs or even wave guns. It's all for a friend, honest."

60,000 Credits - Hypospray

"There's a market for these. I can strip the ones I don't sell for parts."

10,000 Credits - Pipe Bomb
"Always useful, and always a top seller."

Sells:

XXX,XXX Credits - [random syndicate item]

Approx. 90k per TC value, High Value Whitelist*
XXX,XXX Credits - [random syndicate item]

Approx. 60k per TC value, Low Value Whitelist*

XXX,XXX Credits - [random syndicate item]

Approx. 60k per TC value, Low Value Whitelist*

120,000 Credits - Modified Hypospray
"There's a chip on these hyposprays that make them accept only pre-approved medicines. Lot of people don't like that, so I short out the chip so it doesn't flush out 'alternative medicine'. Accepts all liquids, guaranteed."

99,900 Credits - Modified Cyberliver
"This one has its prototype functions installed, and can heal you as it purges ethanol."
80,000 Credits - Modified Cyberappendix
"Jailbroken. Has a healing protocol installed, and a port to charge PDAs."

60,000 Credits - Modified Cyberspleen
"This spleen has its safety mechanisms disabled and a supercharged blood production gland. If you get this implanted, your blood pressure will spike and you will die. A surprising amount of people buy these."

80,000 Credits - Gamergy®[url=https://fsymbols.com/tm/][/url] Branded Cyberheart
"Bunch of these fell off the back of a space-van a while back on their way to a promotional event on Earth. Apparently they have extra ram, upgraded microcapillaries and rainbow LED lights."

9,900 Credits - Insulated Gloves

900 Credits - Mechanical Toolbox

300 Credits - Fire Extinguisher

200 Credits - Multitool

180 Credits - Gas Mask

140 Credits - Oil Can

60 Credits - [random colour] Jumpsuit

60 Credits - Balaclava

*High Value Whitelist:
6tc - Old Hunting Rifle, Space American Football Kit, Cursed Clown Mask
4tc - Syndicate Device Analyzer, Stimulants, Rad Poison Crossbow, Agent Card

*Low Value Whitelist:
240,000 Credits - Laser Rifle, Trick Revolver
180,000 Credits - Holographic Disguiser
120,000 Credits - Slip and Sign, Syndicate Omnitool, Floor Closet
60,000 Credits - Voice Changer, Stealth Storage, Trick Cigarettes, Hotbox Lighter, Syndicate Mailman Suit, Miniature Bible, Spy Sticker Kit

Given how easy some of these items are to get, you might wanna remove a few zeroes from the buy list

[Cal]

you can rapidly print off hyposprays

still big no on security gear

[Zonespace]

So I'm thanks for the criticism and taking what people have said into account, I've reworked and completed DR KILL. Is this good enough for a trial run as a feature? (note that haggling can push prices around 30% in a player's favor):


*snip*

Way way too much cash for selling things to them, and anything above 3 TC will be a hard (at VERY MINIMUM) sell to get in game. Cash isn't hard to get in the slightest.

[Deadvickyart]

They're on par with spy rewards in terms of monetary value, except the HoS beret which has a hard limit on how many can spawn, isn't guaranteed to spawn, and is the treasured mark of authority for an extremely heavily armed crewman with a lot of power. I think they're fine as is, they can only payout once per hour and for the trinkets/butt you have only 15 minutes to go to the console, identify what the merchant wants and then go collect it.

[Zonespace]

They're on par with spy rewards in terms of monetary value, except the HoS beret which has a hard limit on how many can spawn, isn't guaranteed to spawn, and is the treasured mark of authority for an extremely heavily armed crewman with a lot of power. I think they're fine as is, they can only payout once per hour and for the trinkets/butt you have only 15 minutes to go to the console, identify what the merchant wants and then go collect it.

Random traders buy the HoS hat for __10,000__, which is a bit low yes, but is much much more reasonable than 2 mil

[Deadvickyart]

you can rapidly print off hyposprays

still big no on security gear

Rapidly printing them is the point. You get 5 hyposprays for 1 bar of glass, 1 bar of steel and 1 bar of copper. Rewards mining for getting mauxite, pharosium and molitz instead of ignoring them. They should be balanced in relation to the loop of buying food from the market and selling them to random traders, which nets you around 8,000 credits for a 1,500 credit crate.

Is that a no to buying or selling security gear? When I finish the telesci/salvage merchant I'll start reviewing monty, and I'll be very careful about people buying powerful gear. How would people feel about limited (like 3 every hour) batons avaliable without power cells? How widely avaliable are small power cells anyway, outside of security and matsci?

Way way too much cash for selling things to them, and anything above 3 TC will be a hard (at VERY MINIMUM) sell to get in game. Cash isn't hard to get in the slightest.

I don't get what you're saying. Too much cash or it's too easy to get?

I've specifically picked out a whitelist of items that have a low round impact, ones that have functional equivalents elsewhere, and ones that are underused. I also bumped them up a few telecrystals in value in most cases, and almost all of them are below 3 crystals in value to begin with.

---

Random traders buy the HoS hat for __10,000__, which is a bit low yes, but is much much more reasonable than 2 mil

I dunno, I was looking at what Vuldark was offering for the viking armor I think we need more rewards for selling stuff like this. He offers 90k for that and the effort's around the same, so the rules about what should be worth what are a little inconsistant. Regardless, I think a high stakes once-a-round heist for the HoS's hat, possibly involving the clown tricking him into wearing an ass, should be rewarded with great riches and you should have a chance to beat out the CE for richest escapee for pulling it off.

When people mention how money is so easy to get, they're rarely talking about people grabbing space loot and pawning it off to a merchant, anyway. They're talking about hellburns, quantum telescope fishing or stealing it from the station funds. The first two are fine but kinda unrewarding since you need to scour the debris field to actually buy cool stuff with your wads of cash (and the stuff you can buy is usually less interesting than the stuff around them), and the station funds computer could do with a rework from the ground up imo. I want the market to actually be viable for making cash, encourage people to hang around the stock exchange a little.

[Zonespace]

I don't get what you're saying. Too much cash or it's too easy to get?

Both.

I've specifically picked out a whitelist of items that have a low round impact, ones that have functional equivalents elsewhere, and ones that are underused. I also bumped them up a few telecrystals in value in most cases, and almost all of them are below 3 crystals in value to begin with.

A syndicate device analyzer, stimulants, an OHR, and the SAFL kit are not "low round impact".

[Deadvickyart]

A syndicate device analyzer, stimulants, an OHR, and the SAFL kit are not "low round impact".

what ones would you suggest

also the rifle and stims can be gotten from telesci in less than 20 minutes

[Zonespace]

A syndicate device analyzer, stimulants, an OHR, and the SAFL kit are not "low round impact".

what ones would you suggest

also the rifle and stims can be gotten from telesci in less than 20 minutes

Thing is you shouldn't be abusing the OHR from telesci, and there aren't any telesci stims
I would suggest items that are 2 TC, max.

[Deadvickyart]

Thing is you shouldn't be abusing the OHR from telesci, and there aren't any telesci stims
I would suggest items that are 2 TC, max.

That's both a rules issue and an IC issue. Allowing people access to the stuff (once, every hour, if they invested time in advance collecting money, if they get lucky and get the ones they want) doesn't grant them a licence to rampage around the station. If people abuse access to it, they should be dealt with in character by security and if they really abuse it they should be reported to the admins. Exactly as if they'd gotten a laser rifle or phaser from a random hangman crate.

[mralexs]

I say replace the sec gear with custom small power cells. Rewards mining for getting certain mats and crafting stuff

[Waffleloffle]

the thing about the sec gear sale/traitor goods aspect of this black market concept is that you seem to be designing it to be used mainly by antags, but the truth of the matter is that it'll almost certainly be predominantly used by grayshirts, powergamers, and anyone else intent on getting their grubby hands on evil junk that they shouldn't usually have access to