sec modules should be a thing

[arkand]

We should reintroduce security modules with a few things to hopefully make it less of a shit situation, but as i wasnt around back then so i dont know the actual problems and tools they had.

To begin i think that people who dont have security access cant command borgs with sec modules about sec stuff. This is the same as a staffie cant tell the ai to set a captain to arrest as the staffie doesnt have access to the security records and secmate. This should prevent problems like people without sec-access telling sec-module borgs to go arrest someone or not to arrest them.

Secondly to stop law breaking sec modules should be tied to the hop whitelist/should only be accesible to people who played 50-80 borg+ai rounds/people who played 1000 rounds. If the requirments arent met, the borgs/ais should should just be given another module of their choice, if theres multiple ais the one that doesnt meet the requirments cant choose the shell with the sec-module.

Thirdly i think that sec modules shouldnt be very over powered in combat. I think they should have a 5 time use flash, 3 time use baton, a self recharging taser (3 shots, 20 seconds to recharge a shot) and paper cuffs(3 uses and 3 seconds to break out of). To recharge the flash, baton, and paper cuffs the cyborg must stay in a docking station for 60 seconds.
And as for their non combat tools:
forensics scanner, food synthesizer, whistle and ticket writer with all of the default tools.

[Zonespace]

Please no, secborgs are godawful off goon and only encourage skirting your laws to validhunt with your AA and thermal vision

[arkand]

Please no, secborgs are godawful off goon and only encourage skirting your laws to validhunt with your AA and thermal vision

i made this for feedback, im not saying that this is a good idea with only the things i mentioned. But on servers like yogstation ive seen borgs with flashes, every module has one iirc and its not broken. The peacekeepers have something close to tasers and they have hyporosprays that inject knockout chems into you. On goon our brobocop has a cardboard tube that deals less stamina damage than humans regenerate. And as the topping flashes nearly instantly drop you onto the ground, and falling down on yogstation is worse because standing up needs time.

[Nidabutt]

I wouldn't have an issue with the cop module having a slowly recharging flash tbh. It's a borg, it needs to flash you multiple times (if you're not wearing any eye protection to begin with) and you need to flash it literally once. I'd say no baton, cuffs, etc... (taser is a maybe) as that takes away from security a little too much. I do very much like the idea of having a cop borg work with a sec officer using systems that supplement the sec officer's kit rather than replacing it, it would be super cute and encourage more silicon-human interaction.

[Danger Noodle]

Please no, secborgs are godawful off goon and only encourage skirting your laws to validhunt with your AA and thermal vision

i made this for feedback, im not saying that this is a good idea with only the things i mentioned. But on servers like yogstation ive seen borgs with flashes, every module has one iirc and its not broken. The peacekeepers have something close to tasers and they have hyporosprays that inject knockout chems into you. On goon our brobocop has a cardboard tube that deals less stamina damage than humans regenerate. And as the topping flashes nearly instantly drop you onto the ground, and falling down on yogstation is worse because standing up needs time.

Goonstation is not yog and we don't have the same type of balance. Stun weapons are the best of the best on goon and giving them to a supersonic robot with thermals, the ability to bolt doors on command and AA doesn't go well. Like zone says it encourages validhunting and other bad behaviour. 

KO chems just aren't fun and the instant injection of hyposprays makes them even less fun to deal with. Handcuffs are a little less bad but combined with borg stun weapons would be horrible because of their sheer speed so you can't even flash them as a traitor if they're smart. And if you do flash them the borg might have a recovery upgrade that instantly unstuns them at the cost of power so you can't run or fight.

As for your ideas the whitelist is not a good way to implement it and I have no idea what the HoP whitelist unless you mean the HoS whitelist and restricting more things to the HoS isn't a great solution as they are already starting to get a bit bloated. I'm not sure if you understand just how long 1k rounds is especially for a person that can only get 1 or 2 in per day. 50-80 rounds is still a huge time investement.

[arkand]

hmm. Well, perhaps goving the cyborg tasers and batons is not the best idea. But they should have something to fight criminals. Our mediborg, engineering borg, civilian borgs are all more dangerous than our brobocop. I still think sec borgs should have atleast a flash, and the 50-80 ai rounds; 1k rounds are ment that the tools arent going to lead to law breaking as i heard it was one of the reasons the sec module was removed.

Does a self recharging 4(3 needed to stun, 1 extra as the borg will likely fail to land 3 in quick succesion) time use flash instead of the taser and baton sound better? The flash recharges a use over 20 seconds like before. The cuffs still need 2 seconds to be broken out of but the borg cuffs 1.5 times slower(6 seconds). I think this will make it less abusable, and that sec borgs cant cuff people on their own.

[Danger Noodle]

The flash and cuffs do sound much better and by the way whitelists and timegates often don't stop abuse as experienced players make up a pretty big portion of greytiders and "shitters" but since this is a security related role I do think a timegate would be good (probably the same as a secoff).

[arkand]

The flash and cuffs do sound much better and by the way whitelists and timegates often don't stop abuse as experienced players make up a pretty big portion of greytiders and "shitters" but since this is a security related role I do think a timegate would be good (probably the same as a secoff).

i think a timegate is needed to prevent people who dont know ai laws well from playing. It was said that this module often lead to lawbreaking. And i agree as alot of ais these days dont even realise that law 1 doesnt need them to prevent harm and even more people think that law 2 doesnt allow ais to let you into places you cant go into. Even though law 2 means if someone doesnt have access to a place, its your decision to let or not to let them in. Things get worse when custom laws are introduced. For example: kill all humans. Some ais/cyborgs would just kill all humans

[Marc]

Please no, secborgs are godawful off goon and only encourage skirting your laws to validhunt with your AA and thermal vision

This

even a light cyborg can toolbox the shit out of someone way before they can get any hits in

[aft2001]

The Security module already exists in the form of Brobocop. It is not capable of enforcing THE LAW by itself, but is able to assist sec by watching cameras, doing forensics without risk of contamination and in dangerous areas, and managing records.

If anything, I think this module should indeed be buffed, through the addition of a donut dispenser or something. Not sure what should be done about the food synthesizer; it's nice but makes the chef irrelevant on RP so, bleh.

That and **MAYBE** having a built in charger, allowing it to transfer energy inefficiently to a baton or something, but that feels kinda busted.

[Frank_Stein]

The Security module already exists in the form of Brobocop...

That and **MAYBE** having a built in charger, allowing it to transfer energy inefficiently to a baton or something, but that feels kinda busted.

I could see that working if it drained the Borg at a higher rate while it was charging, so it was more of a sacrificial thing

Potentially, you could have a beefier Sec Module as unique and limited use HoS locked armory item.

[Zonespace]

Please no, secborgs are godawful off goon and only encourage skirting your laws to validhunt with your AA and thermal vision

i made this for feedback, im not saying that this is a good idea with only the things i mentioned. But on servers like yogstation ive seen borgs with flashes, every module has one iirc and its not broken. The peacekeepers have something close to tasers and they have hyporosprays that inject knockout chems into you. On goon our brobocop has a cardboard tube that deals less stamina damage than humans regenerate. And as the topping flashes nearly instantly drop you onto the ground, and falling down on yogstation is worse because standing up needs time.

I've had so many consistently poor experiences with secborgs off of Goon that I have no desire to see them on Goon at all (apart from broborg, they're chill)

[Tiresoup]

I primarily play /TG/. From what I've seen (secborgs are currently admin only there), they're just changeling hunters. We have enough security already, this just seems like a way to add more validhunting.