Goonhub
11-24-2021, 06:14 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2021, 06:31 AM by Crystalwarrior. Edited 2 times in total.)
I want to start this by figuring out exactly what does the shuttle escape mean, both from the game standpoint and its in-universe explanation.
Escape shuttle introduces a variable amount of round length. Players always have to choose to call the shuttle unless crew death threshold is passed (only seen this happen on lowpop), or "shift change" threshold is reached (usually 90 minutes, with subsequent 60 minute (?) increments for repeated calls). There is an option to recall the shuttle, which can be done at any time, by anyone with sufficient access or the silicons. Once the shuttle is called, there's 2 minutes you have to recall it until it's no longer possible to recall it in transit. You have unlimited amount of recalls. If you don't make it fast enough to the shuttle, you can board an escape pod and have a chance of appearing next to the shuttle to break into it in transit, or explode.
Here is what I observed happening as a consequence of this set of mechanics:
Now, the actual shuttle transit:
Now, I dunno about you, but examining these mechanics as a whole just gives me a nasty, weird vibe. Nothing you do during the round seems to have any meaning, as in the end you always abandon the station and escape with what you can carry. If you want to survive the shuttle, you have to specifically create robust chems, and pray your department is capable of supplying you with survival gear. It also feels extremely unrewarding to me that you could be an awesome miner, give all departments ever all the materials they ever need, and in the end you know everyone has to abandon everything they did for a fresh, new round, very often without a chance to even use anything they made.
Now, let's look at this lore-wise. What does The Company - Centcomm - do during all this?
So what is even the goal for Centcomm on each round, role-play or otherwise? It's actually hard for me to understand what is even the purpose of each given shift, even as a player. So far, it's one big sand box where I essentially make my own goal or follow the crew objectives, but it doesn't truly matter what I end up doing, there is no major goal to work towards, except for game modes like Nuke Ops.
In Nuke Ops, the game expands to introduce several new ways to win or lose:
All of this introduces a common enemy, and multiple approaches to the situation - there are several ways to achieve victory that does not even involve the escape shuttle! It also introduces interesting dynamics and drama where calling the shuttle may not even be seen as a good option by some crews.
I really want to discuss this and brainstorm ideas. How can we take the lessons learned from the nuke ops setup, and apply them to the standard gameplay loop? In what ways can the crew end the round that does not involve escape shuttle? And how can those new methods to end the round involve as many crew members as possible?
Now, time for some actual suggestions, starting with the shuttle:
As for other ways to potentially end the round. The tricky part is making it satisfying for everyone. The shuttle has the benefit of being telegraphed, and allowing you to delay it, potentially indefinitely (for better or worse).
Escape shuttle introduces a variable amount of round length. Players always have to choose to call the shuttle unless crew death threshold is passed (only seen this happen on lowpop), or "shift change" threshold is reached (usually 90 minutes, with subsequent 60 minute (?) increments for repeated calls). There is an option to recall the shuttle, which can be done at any time, by anyone with sufficient access or the silicons. Once the shuttle is called, there's 2 minutes you have to recall it until it's no longer possible to recall it in transit. You have unlimited amount of recalls. If you don't make it fast enough to the shuttle, you can board an escape pod and have a chance of appearing next to the shuttle to break into it in transit, or explode.
Here is what I observed happening as a consequence of this set of mechanics:
- An escape shuttle vote is initiated by an announcement by the players. If majority votes "Y", it gets called. Otherwise, it doesn't.
- A shuttle may sometimes be randomly called out of nowhere. Everyone is annoyed and screams to recall. If it's not recalled, the round is over in an unsatisfying way for everyone.
- Shuttle shift change shuttle is called, everyone things "eh it's fine" and recalls it to pursue their long-term projects such as advzone, cargonia, learning new departments in low chaos etc. Anyone who got gibbed or permanently removed from the round has no chance to come back for potentially several hours.
- A rampaging maniac massacres enough crew to result in "crew member fatalities" shuttle call. It's certain they have access - now you're at the mercy of them not recalling out of courtesy for the rest of the players. But they're technically allowed to recall the fatality shuttle, and it's not even technically against the rules, though it's somewhat reasonable for an admin to get involved and yell at the antag for this I still think it's problematic due to the mechanics.
- Someone keeps calling the shuttle, the crew keeps recalling. This will happen for as long as one side or the other gets bored and gives up, or admins get involved. Nothing meaningful stops this mechanically, as the 2 minute threshold never has a chance to pass.
Now, the actual shuttle transit:
- A lot of antags go loud and start racking up kills, either for fun or for objectives. Panic, stress and chaos ensues.
- People sometimes get randomly thrown out the airlocks or broken windows, or just end up getting killed by a self-antag. Ahelps and messy post-round log-scouring for admins ensue.
- Some antags and players who want to live huddle in some corner, hide themselves in sleepers, the lockers, or just lay down and pray to God a bomb doesn't go off.
- A bomb goes off, a whole bunch of people die.
- Security huddles in the brig in hopes of surviving. They don't even bother dealing with the amount of chaos and friendly fire going on in the main section of the shuttle.
- If, by some miracle, no antags make it to the shuttle, paranoia, stress and expectation of chaos might still lead to all of the above occurring. Expect a flood of post-round ahelps.
- Have fun with your hijack objective! Even critters apparently count, so enjoy being a Ling with your limb critters counting against the objective and red texting your ass. Most likely requires gratuitous rampage, barricading the escape shuttle, sabotaging escape pods and murdering everything and anything that gets on. Only seen this greentexted on low pop, which sometimes isn't even a challenge depending on antag.
Now, I dunno about you, but examining these mechanics as a whole just gives me a nasty, weird vibe. Nothing you do during the round seems to have any meaning, as in the end you always abandon the station and escape with what you can carry. If you want to survive the shuttle, you have to specifically create robust chems, and pray your department is capable of supplying you with survival gear. It also feels extremely unrewarding to me that you could be an awesome miner, give all departments ever all the materials they ever need, and in the end you know everyone has to abandon everything they did for a fresh, new round, very often without a chance to even use anything they made.
Now, let's look at this lore-wise. What does The Company - Centcomm - do during all this?
- Centcomm is completely okay with sending and re-sending the shuttle as many times as necessary, no charge, no complaint! Fuel costs be damned!
- Centcomm is completely okay with their extremely expensive station going derelict over any reason, or none provided! They have no thresholds in place to determine what is a "shuttle-callable" situation, structural integrity or crew shortage does not matter! This crew just feels like leaving, I guess!
- The shuttle is called *every round*! That's each round of a derelict space station, if we consider each round doesn't exist in its own self-contained universe.
- Make money and research to lose it all! The station is no-doubt expensive, but it does not seem to matter to the company, despite there being mechanics in place for station budget and selling research.
So what is even the goal for Centcomm on each round, role-play or otherwise? It's actually hard for me to understand what is even the purpose of each given shift, even as a player. So far, it's one big sand box where I essentially make my own goal or follow the crew objectives, but it doesn't truly matter what I end up doing, there is no major goal to work towards, except for game modes like Nuke Ops.
In Nuke Ops, the game expands to introduce several new ways to win or lose:
- Win by killing all nuke ops before the nuke is planted
- Win by destroying the nuke even if nuke ops are alive or not
- Win (?) by escaping in the shuttle before the nuke gets planted
- Lose by nuke ops killing everyone and blowing up the station
- Lose by escaping on the shuttle with a planted nuke
All of this introduces a common enemy, and multiple approaches to the situation - there are several ways to achieve victory that does not even involve the escape shuttle! It also introduces interesting dynamics and drama where calling the shuttle may not even be seen as a good option by some crews.
I really want to discuss this and brainstorm ideas. How can we take the lessons learned from the nuke ops setup, and apply them to the standard gameplay loop? In what ways can the crew end the round that does not involve escape shuttle? And how can those new methods to end the round involve as many crew members as possible?
Now, time for some actual suggestions, starting with the shuttle:
- If the pattern is for people to start shuttle votes, why not make it the default behavior? A shuttle vote must be initiated to decide whether a shuttle is called or not. Anyone not voting is ignored.
- Similarly, to recall the shuttle, there needs to be a limiting factor - perhaps a vote as well, or a limited amount of recalls in a certain period of time. Due to the shuttle vote itself requiring a vote, perhaps there's a maximum of one recall per 30 or so minutes? Just spitballing.
- I have no clue what to even do for the shuttle transit itself. Some people pondered lengthening the time spent in transit, but I dunno if I see merit in that yet.
- Perhaps hijack objectives should be removed from lowpop unless a certain threshold of players is reached - maybe at least 15 people must be there at roundstart for hijack objectives to be introduced in rotation?
As for other ways to potentially end the round. The tricky part is making it satisfying for everyone. The shuttle has the benefit of being telegraphed, and allowing you to delay it, potentially indefinitely (for better or worse).
- I've been pondering the concept of Department Objectives. Each station department is tasked with fulfilling a certain quantifiable objective - Quartermasters have to earn X amount of money for Nanotrasen, Roboticists have to create a number of borgs and available surplus bodies/securitrons, Research has to correctly identify a number of artifacts for a good overall percentage rate, Security has to ensure at least half the antagonists are brigged or borged, Civilian department has to have a certain number of food, drinks and produce available for sale through QM, etc. - Out of all of these objectives, only some of them have to be completed to unlock an alternative round end.
- Perhaps that alternative round end earns everyone on the station a vacation or something, and you can reach that vacation through a space dinner shuttle?
- The vacation shuttle may not even necessarily end the round - simply accelerate it by perhaps removing the ability to recall the shuttle, and auto-calling it once the vacation shuttle arrives at the vacation zone?
- Alternatively, the new round end conditions could be tied to advzone, however the problem with this is it's tied into telesci and any volunteers willing to participate in *off-station* adventures.
