Mindslave implants need an overhaul

[Katzen]

Not sure about making a change to mindslaves. Some changes could backfire on meta knowledge, if sec/cap become too hard to implant would you risk a random staff assistant or person playing job X who you know is a robust antagonist?

Also changes would further buff security who have been benefitting from most changes and increased HoS presence for the last year.

Generally speaking people who use mindslave implants to implant robust people are not the most robust people themselves and the whole reason they bought the mindslave was to have someone that can actually fight.

This too. Mindslaves are a bit of a playing field leveller.

[MetricDuck]

[isr]

[Ikea]

I mean, you dont need paragons of robustness to be an aid in fighting. Two people with fire extingushers can take on basically any threat. Ive mindslavd several people who are on the newer side and have been able to work. As per the concerns about gating things behind combat, its not hard to kill some staffie and tell them to go mining, while it would make ginmick usage of mindslaves harder, it wouldnt be that bad.

[Zafhset]

Absolutely no to this.

Players who consistently go out of their way to mindslave specific people is more of a playerbase meta problem, which will never go away even if you nerf it into the ground.
Any changes will at most mildly inconvenience experienced players (who coincidentally are the most likely to target robust people). In exchange, it will make life way more difficult for the average mindslave user.

Being traitor is tough enough in the current playerbase climate full of validhunters and populated sec teams.

[Frank_Stein]

I think maybe you could refine what mindslave implants allowed someone to do.

For instance, a cheaper mindslave that doesn't allow the mindslave to do any action that would harm others or themselves, but do what's in their power to help their master in their capacity.

Another thing you can do is make certain mindslaves also small scale bombs. As soon as the implant is in a timer starts and the implant will explode once it's done or you attempt to remove it.

[GORE]

Minslave implants are fine.

[AlyasGrey]

I feel like I keep harping on this, but when antag balancing is done with robust players in mind those players usually end up only getting more dangerous in relation to everyone else. Experienced players will find ways around any new limitations while the newer players will end up being the ones that experience 90% of the pain.

What happens if this change were to occur is that someone like, let's say Falkin, will just end up grabbing a baton or stun artifact from somewhere and mindslave who they want to anyways... just with an additional five minutes or so of effort. But Johnny McNooberson will try to use one and either get their head kicked in, get called out or the person they try to mindslave will know what is happening and allow it to happen anyway. I don't think any of these are optimal outcomes for long term growth within the game.

Newer players have to be allowed a chance to succeed, at least long enough to gain the experience to improve... and I really agree that gating everything behind combat ability only ends up creating a bigger gap than the chasm that already exists.

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For instance, a cheaper mindslave that doesn't allow the mindslave to do any action that would harm others or themselves, but do what's in their power to help their master in their capacity.

I do like the concept of a 2TC 'amnesia' implant for folks to use on workers in their own department that essentially requires them to not report on traitorous activity unless attacked.

[Rlocks]

Yes, and to be honest this nerf idea seems to be geared towards aiding experienced players, without concern about those who havent even figured out the basics of movement, or how to swap off of help intent yet. Plus, this idea seems to be just a nerf without thinking of how it effects more than just hampering experienced players for a round or two.

[UrsulaMejor]

it's actually so that the same 3 players can have a normal round without being mindslaved instantly because everyone knows they're robust.

it's the meta, but it's not fun to *be* the meta when the meta is to mindslave you.

you call it a playing field leveller, but when everyone has the same plan it leads to high intensity burnout for everyone involved

[palpetinus]

without concern about those who havent even figured out the basics of movement, or how to swap off of help intent yet

If you don't know how to move or swap intents and you specifically tick the antag roles, that's on you, you're setting yourself up to be robusted.

[Vocalpocal]

I don't think there is anything wrong with Mindslave implants, except when it is used metagame style to just give your friend an antag status. It is a great traitor item for gimmicks, and I'd rather not have it changed.

[MetricDuck]

[isq]

[RichardGere]

it's actually so that the same 3 players can have a normal round without being mindslaved instantly because everyone knows they're robust.

I’d be willing to bet those 3 players have sechuds / sunglasses more often than not.

If the implant was reworked as a flash / rev flash like RGB mentioned you could hit multiple points raised above:
- Non instant conversion for people with eye protection, requiring subduing first. “Meta” converts are harder.
- Instant conversion for people who don’t have eye resist. The engineer can still slave the CE to hotwire the engine despite have nothing in the way of silent killers.

Could be a good compromise.

[Mouse]

it's actually so that the same 3 players can have a normal round without being mindslaved instantly because everyone knows they're robust.

it's the meta, but it's not fun to *be* the meta when the meta is to mindslave you.

you call it a playing field leveller, but when everyone has the same plan it leads to high intensity burnout for everyone involved

They made that bed, they can lie in it IMO.

[Ion Mage]

They made that bed, they can lie in it IMO.

What, for being robust?