Suggestions to more clearly define the seperation of com/sec, med/sci and eng/car.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

Officially, Goonstation and many other servers have the aformentioned departments. The thing is for some reason these departments are meshed together on Gooncode. Which is just strange, really. It doesn't promote inter-department interactions that wouldn't exist anyway. It also makes some departments rather lacking when they could be their own thing entirely. I propose the following changes to make departments more powerful and iconic in their own right, while hopefully preserving their need to work together.

Command/Security:

This one's easy. Just list them as different divisions on the join screen.

Medical/Science:

Currently, medical and science are listed as the same department because science makes medicine or something. They also share some visual aspects (sterile floors, labcoats). They also share a wall and office in Cog1. While I respect the research on human subects medbay does, they could/would do the same even without technically being research. I have some ideas to make them more distinct:

• Change the medical "color" from purple to green. IE the medical staff's IDs would be green, the late-join screen names would be green, etc. Science would keep the purple. The only thing is command is already using green IDs, but since everything else about them is blue, maybe their IDs should be the same to leave green open for medbay.
  
• Switch the AI core and robot control access from the RD to the MD, since it's closer to robotics than research. If you really wanna go the extra mile of making the RD's access make sense, maybe a bunch of the computer-related things could also be moved to the CE. (Side-note: Is robotics engineering or medical?)
  
• Keep with the trend of giving medical a pharmacy in future maps, so they're not entirely tied to research for chems. Maybe there should be some aspect about science's chemlab that's more advanced to promote teamwork, but I'm not sure what. Also it would probably be a good idea to make transport pipes between the two areas for "overflow" (weird drugs sci makes) so they're still connected, but not almost the same room.
  
• Similarly, keep the trend of maps labling medical and science as different mailing adresses.
  
• Make genetics a science thing, and replace the one in medbay with a shittier genetics lab more for "fixing" genes than researching them. Genetics already is pretty clearly geared for science and even dips into SS13's research budget, the RD should be the one to oversee it.
  

Engineering/Cargo:

This is the big one, since cargo currently is basically just a sub-division of engineering. Which doesn't make sense, really. I think part of the idea is to have cargo be more significant since they'd have like 6 guys without engineering, 3 of which are outside, but if more cargo jobs were added this wouldn't be an issue. Besides, meshing them really only adds the CE. To make up for this I suggest adding the following to cargo's jobs:

• Remove the CE's access - This is the (other) big one, since as it stands the CE can currently run in and do everything the QM and miners already can. The QMs are pointless when a CE is on.
  
• Move the mailman to Cargo - He delivers things.
  
• Cut down on the amount of QMs to 1 - The QM oversees cargo both as in the department and the station's literal cargo, right? Why is this a three man job? The only thing is, the QM does everything besides mine ores in cargo, leading us too:
  
• Add a delivery person job, similar to /TG/ and friends' cargo techs - A job more exclusively dedicated to moving cargo from one place to the other via the many different ways SS13 allows. I'm not sure on the exact amount of these, but if the QMs are decreased it should be at-the-least 2 to make up for it. Yes, it's functionally identical to the mailman, but less gimmicky.
  
• Create a "cargo secretary" or something if that still isn't enough. - Officially, somebody to do the QM's many many papers. Really probably just a guy with cool but not-quite QM access.
  
• If it's ever somehow balenced so it can be re-added, maybe put chemist in cargo since they're job is (supposedy) to produce raw materials for SS13.
  
• Maybe move botany to cargo - The project is currently in hiatus possibly forever, but there's been talk about making botany seperate from "catering" entirely.  Cargo makes sense because again, they're supposed to make materials for several different departments.
  

These changes, hopefully, will buff cargo to be more than "discount chief engineers". Also there's some other popular suggestions to buff cargo (such as add more things to the market), but that's a different discussion. In general, ideally all of these changes will give the departments more of a seperate "character" of their own while still keeping the need to work with eachother.

[GORE]

Just pointing out that the Chief-Engineer is suppossed to supervise the Mechanics, Engineers, Miners and Quartermasters. I see no reason to remove half his responsebilities.
With which head-job would the other two departments (QM and Mining) be left with?
Miners (though rarely) can supply the station with cool new material floortiles and help fix broken station parts. It is the Chief Engineers job to talk to the Miners to do exactly that.
The Chief Engineer can also communicate between the other Heads and current problems the station is facing to tell his Quartermasters what to do and what to prioritize.

Adding the mailman to a regular job and to Cargo - could be nice...but only with a regular mailman suit and no Syndicate mailman suit. Otherwise you'll just get it abused daily for a week.

That we get the nice Traitor mailman suit once a week is fine as it is.

It is Cargos job to deliver the ordered items...why limit their responsebilities by adding more sub-category jobs

Cargo secretary? What papers does Cargonia ever receive? You do play QM from time to time - do you?

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

Just pointing out that the Chief-Engineer is suppossed to supervise the Mechanics, Engineers, Miners and Quartermasters. I see no reason to remove half his responsebilities.
With which head-job would the other two departments (QM and Mining) be left with?

I forgot to mention, in this context, the QM would be the head of cargo and maybe a head himself. As for removing half his responsebilities, they're just not things he would logically be taked with.

Miners (though rarely) can supply the station with cool new material floortiles and help fix broken station parts. It is the Chief Engineers job to talk to the Miners to do exactly that.
The Chief Engineer can also communicate between the other Heads and current problems the station is facing to tell his Quartermasters what to do and what to prioritize.

That's just engineering ordering things. Every department does that, it doesn't mean they should fuse with cargo.

It is Cargos job to deliver the ordered items...why limit their responsebilities by adding more sub-category jobs

It wouldn't ideally wouldn't limit their responsebilities, they'd have the same ones, just with a couple more.

Cargo secretary? What papers does Cargonia ever receive? You do play QM from time to time - do you?

Again, it would be a gimmick job. Not actually needed but something that NT would reasonably hire people for and can still influence the round.

[Technature]

To help understand my point, I've made a small drawing.  Art isn't my strong suit, so please don't worry about the quality.



Now, this is just hypothetical as the server is very unlikely to have every single job filled at any given time.

The number of people in each area is pretty well balanced, with the exception of Science and Security, which clearly have noticeably less, but not enough to be a real problem given their jobs.

I don't see much of a point to splitting any of them into a new department.  Among other reasons, it means editing every single map to give a new personal room for a job that doesn't need to exist.  QM doesn't need to be its own thing because their job includes supplying the station, including for potential station destruction.

Goon doesn't need to be other servers.  It works fine being its own thing.

[GORE]

@Technature - I completely agree with you - but - I argue you should move the clown to the top-right - into the security square.

Clowns and security go hand-in-hand. Also...Mimes are evil.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

5 engineers + 3 mechanics = 8 engineering staff
1 QM + 1 mailman + 3 miners + 3 delivery guys = 8 cargo staff

It's still balenced.

[GORE]

5 engineers + 3 mechanics = 8 engineering staff
1 QM + 1 mailman + 3 miners + 3 delivery guys = 8 cargo staff

It's still balenced.

So who wants to re-work every map to add the QM head-office?


I see too much effort to implement this and way too few real usage resulting through this change.
I'd hate to be the guy to re-work the Oshan or Kondaru bridge.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

The QM already has an office on every map. The main cargo room with the fabricators.

[GORE]

@DJ-Fireball_did_this - you see - that is Cargonia itself. That is no head-office.

The chief-engineer has a head office.
The captain has a head office.
The HoS has a head office.
The RD has a head office.
The MD has a head office.

Saying that the Cargo room itself is a head office ... is like saying medbay is the head-office of the MD.


The proposal here was that QM should be the new head-job of the whole department. With that map changes would have to be made...or the newyl created head-job would be the only one without an office.

This is why I am against this idea.

[Technature]

Why have delivery guys though?

QM already has options for automatic delivery, mainly depending on how inconvenient they feel like being, up to and including direct teleportation. Delivery people would be fulfilling a job that's already fulfilled, and if QM really wants to do this gimmick, they can bug random assistants.

You're desperately trying to pitch the idea of an axe while someone is cutting a tree down with a chainsaw in front of you.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

Why have delivery guys though?

QM already has options for automatic delivery, mainly depending on how inconvenient they feel like being, up to and including direct teleportation.  Delivery people would be fulfilling a job that's already fulfilled, and if QM really wants to do this gimmick, they can bug random assistants.

You're desperately trying to pitch the idea of an axe while someone is cutting a tree down with a chainsaw in front of you.

Yeah you're right, I didn't think of that.