Make loyalty implants let you see other implanted people

[AleksAdamska]

Basically just give loyalty implants the sechud functionality of being able to see who else is implanted. I find that a lot of the frustration and apathy behind being a regular (non-rev, non-sec, non-head) crewmember in rev comes from not being able to tell your allies from your enemies aside from sec, and so having a way to do this without having to get conscripted or when you've run out of sechuds would be good, I think.

[saccharineChampion]

While I'm sure there will be folks claiming the mystery's supposed to be part of the fun, I really don't think being in the dark is all that it's cracked up to be. +1 to this suggestion for its good effects it'd have on making revs are more clear and big fight.

[moistgrandmas42]

Yeah, i gotta agree with this post. While I understand why it makes sense that people wouldn't be able to see who's loyalties, this suggestion would really help clarify what's going on during a round. I think it would be a solid addition at next to no cost in terms of balance.

[Tewf]

Would improve rev rounds a lot in my opinion big +1

[KikiMofo]

Yeah Ive always wanted this as an HoS. Ive accidentally shot up people that I have implanted with loyalty implants during rev rounds an embarrassing amount of times.

[Zafhset]

+1 to this. I've always found the lack of clear loyalty indicators for the defending team to be an extremely limiting factor.

You could argue that sec officers being the only ones with it (sechuds) could make the crew rally around them, but having a functional security department is rarer than the times we get rev rounds.

[kyle2143]

Yeah Ive always wanted this as an HoS. Ive accidentally shot up people that I have implanted with loyalty implants during rev rounds an embarrassing amount of times.

Security already can see that. The sechuds show it.

I was going to make the point that zafhset did, that the crew should rally around security since they can see who has the implants and have weapons. But i don't think the answer is letting them see that overlay at no cost.

The problem is that the only current way to see loyalty implants is to have sechuds, of which there are only 4 on the station sans the ones sec officers start with. And sechuds are not only rare, but powerful in rev rounds where revheads have flashes.

I have an idea for a compromise:

•  Add a new item to the loyalty implant boxes/security vendors. A glasses slot item like that failed "Google Glass" thing from a few years ago, which shows you who has a loyalty implant and does nothing else. (Maybe it could give minor flash protection? I dunno)
  

•  Change the loyalty implant box to have 3 implants and 3 eyeglass thingies.
  
•  Replace the standard implant cases in those with "emergency auto-implanters" like the auto-injectors use with chems. They are small, single use, and clutter up the floor when spent.
  

I think it's a more lore-friendly option since it gives you actual technology NT has to use to show you the hud information. And it requires you to use a slot and go to the effort of obtaining the eye hud thing in order to see. Granted it probably wont be much effort because a sec officer who implanted you would want you to be able to see who is implanted as much as you do so that you can be more helpful.

[Sundance]

Yeah Ive always wanted this as an HoS. Ive accidentally shot up people that I have implanted with loyalty implants during rev rounds an embarrassing amount of times.

Security already can see that. The sechuds show it.

I was going to make the point that zafhset did, that the crew should rally around security since they can see who has the implants and have weapons. But i don't think the answer is letting them see that overlay at no cost.

The problem is that the only current way to see loyalty implants is to have sechuds, of which there are only 4 on the station sans the ones sec officers start with. And sechuds are not only rare, but powerful in rev rounds where revheads have flashes.

I have an idea for a compromise:

•  Add a new item to the loyalty implant boxes/security vendors. A glasses slot item like that failed "Google Glass" thing from a few years ago, which shows you who has a loyalty implant and does nothing else. (Maybe it could give minor flash protection? I dunno)
  

•  Change the loyalty implant box to have 3 implants and 3 eyeglass thingies.
  
•  Replace the standard implant cases in those with "emergency auto-implanters" like the auto-injectors use with chems. They are small, single use, and clutter up the floor when spent.
  

I think it's a more lore-friendly option since it gives you actual technology NT has to use to show you the hud information. And it requires you to use a slot and go to the effort of obtaining the eye hud thing in order to see. Granted it probably wont be much effort because a sec officer who implanted you would want you to be able to see who is implanted as much as you do so that you can be more helpful.

Agreed with the majority of this post. There's a bit of a balancing issue here that may swing the victory in the loyalists favor a little too much.

Some points:

Revolutionaries, like traitors, act in the shadows before they grow in strength. While loyalists normally act in clear view. I think if something's gonna change, then it needs to play off this dynamic.

My suggestion would be for a purposefully flawed badge (i.e: Sticker) system that's thankfully not actually that complicated, which works as such:

1. Loyalty implant box also contains NT badges box. These "NT Insignia" work as intended, sticking to the outside sprite.

2. Aside from sticking to the outside sprite, these badges also give a visual indicator in the top-right hand corner of your sprite (ala Sec-hud), but without the need for any eyewear.


3. This visual overlay is not the same as an implanted loyalist and both can coincide. To clarify, a Sec-hud would be able to differentiate between a crewmember who is loyal and wearing NT Insignia, one that is loyal but not wearing NT Insignia... and one that is not loyal and wearing NT Insignia. You see where i'm going with this...

This plays off the dynamic of the loyalists being exposed but provides a clear view to non-security loyalists to who's who without impacting on clothing. 

On the flip-side, revolutionaries may be able to abuse this in multiple ways, by either pretending to be a loyalist if they get their hands on an NT Insignia (and avoiding security who may catch them out on the act) or by assassinating loyalists who are basically flaunting their loyalty.

[KikiMofo]

If sechuds can already see it then thats fine. Must have been added after the last time I played rev round as HoS.
I think people that have been implanted with the loyalty implant should also be able to see the icons as well. If that is already how it is then I dunno what this thread is about.

[AleksAdamska]

If sechuds can already see it then thats fine. Must have been added after the last time I played rev round as HoS.
I think people that have been implanted with the loyalty implant should also be able to see the icons as well. If that is already how it is then I dunno what this thread is about.

Currently, loyalty implanted people can't see these icons.

[snip]

I feel like a mechanic that's intentionally abusable by the revs like this one would only add to the confusion that we're trying to solve here, and would make playing as a normal crewmember/loyalist even more frustrating. With the way rev rounds have gone since implants were made to take time instead of being instant (I've only ever seen loyalists win when sec is near-full or at lowpop), I don't see this change swinging the balance too far towards loyalists.

[Dickles]

The SecHuds make it so there's a core team fighting the revolution. Rev rounds are almost always about snowballing without a recovery, this feels like it would increase that. Successful Head rounds I've seen are always secure cargo, buy a bunch of implants, implant everyone you see. If those people can see who is loyal and who isn't, it's greatly going to increase how strong security is; they'll have all these new recruits that aren't as afraid to get involved in fights and beat people up. And now they can deconvert people as well.

Security's strength is the gear they start up with, and the slow build up of loyalty implanting everyone on the station. This would shore up that middle-period where the rev heads have hopefully converted a lot of people and security is behind on manpower. I'm not sure they need that.

[Enfaeutchie]

So, here's how it looks to me:
Yes, it might tip the balance in the favour of the crew - But it would also make it more fun for them. At the moment, when I'm regular crew during rev, I have no idea what to do, because I'm wedged in the middle of a team deathmatch where I don't know who's on what side and attacking the wrong person could end up really badly for me, and it just makes it really hard to care! I'd love it if either being loyalty implanted let me see who was on my side, or there was a way to for sec to hand out secHUDs to the loyalists, whatever - I'd no longer be so apathetic, and I suspect the same would occur for the rest of the crew

[OMJ]

I don’t think this is a good change. Rev is good because of the confusion.

[Frank_Stein]

Idea: Have loyalty implants modify the salute emote to indicate extra loyalty to NT.

Indentify your teammates by their special salutes

[Tewf]

Yes x1000 to what frank said. Having an extra loyal salute sounds amazing and requires you to still pay attention to a degree.