Changes to glove fingerprinting

[Hikurac]

So currently you can only detect fingerprints through latex gloves, which adds which encrypts the fingerprint code. All other gloves, including insulating gloves, completely hide one's fingerprint. 

I'm suggesting that insulative gloves (the yellow ones, boxing ones, etc) either don't hide your ID at all or they should encrypt the fingerprint like with latex gloves (preferably not hide them at all, so latex has a purpose). That way you have to make a choice between gloves that hide your fingerprint and gloves that prevent shock, rather than having both in one package.

[Frank_Stein]

The glovex have unique fiber codes though. If they don't switch gloves, you can still detect them

[Hikurac]

The glovex have unique fiber codes though. If they don't switch gloves, you can still detect them

You can still detect them, yes, but it's a far longer process that's also much more prone to error. There's quite a bit of difference between using the forensic "search" function, and manually keeping track of suspicious glove codes, going to each individual, scanning them, then comparing them their glove codes.

For the most part, people just slap on insulated/boxing gloves to prevent getting zapped. My point is that those gloves shouldn't completely conceal their fingerprints, in addition to preventing shock. If they want to hide their prints completely, they should wear the appropriate gloves to do so, rather than simply equipping the be-all end-all insulated/boxing gloves.

[Tarmunora]

I see absolutely no reason why stuff like boxing gloves would convey fingerprints. That's just absurd.

The gameplay reason why is so that stealthy antags don't have to wipe down everything with space cleaner to prevent the Det from outing them in an instant. Need to track down gloves as the Det? Deputize a couple assistants by paying them to scan people for their glove ID, baton+cuffs optional.

[Lady Birb]

Insulateds and boxing gloves are few enough that usually there aren't too many people wearing them, so it isn't too hard to scan everyone who has them. If you ask to scan someone and they run away, they are either a shitter or an antag, and should be shot immediately.

[Hikurac]

I see absolutely no reason why stuff like boxing gloves would convey fingerprints. That's just absurd.

The gameplay reason why is so that stealthy antags don't have to wipe down everything with space cleaner to prevent the Det from outing them in an instant. Need to track down gloves as the Det? Deputize a couple assistants by paying them to scan people for their glove ID, baton+cuffs optional.

We're not really gonna argue about realism on Goonstation, are we? Also, ↓

If they want to hide their prints, they should wear the appropriate gloves to do so, rather than simply equipping the be-all end-all insulated/boxing gloves.

Insulateds and boxing gloves are few enough that usually there aren't too many people wearing them, so it isn't too hard to scan everyone who has them. If you ask to scan someone and they run away, they are either a shitter or an antag, and should be shot immediately.

It's not a matter of people running away upon being scanned, it's a matter of of scanning 30+ people, and that's without even accounting for people swapping gloves and those who aren't around.

Also, I'd never recommend deputizing assistants. One can barely trust the detective to not be an antag, let alone a handful of greytiders. We had this chat about why people don't want to play sec, when I posted some comments in another thread. Only being able to determine antags based off of the slim chance that they're spotted in the act is definitely one of those reasons. It also doesn't help that most officers don't even know how to use forensics (probably due to it being a largely ineffective endeavor, given the reasons above).

There's no reason for insulated/boxing gloves to have all the advantages with no downsides, as it makes the other gloves completely pointless as well. I'm not even suggesting that they have to perfectly reveal fingerprint codes either. They could show it in an encrypted format just like with latex gloves.

[cgrn10]

Seems like a dumb pointless change. You don't need to scan 30 people for insulated gloves, maybe at most like 5, same with boxing gloves.

[Hikurac]

Seems like a dumb pointless change. You don't need to scan 30 people for insulated gloves, maybe at most like 5, same with boxing gloves.

Yet for some mysterious reason, rarely does anyone bother. It's a major hassle to siphon through the crew to find said people, not accounting for those that tossed the gloves at some point, those that are hiding it visibly, and those that buggered off to who knows where (or just anywhere that sec doesn't have access to). It's not a pointless change. It's the difference between something being viable and something being nearly untouched. I've been doing this for months and the only time I've ever caught someone through forensics is because for some silly reason, they didn't wear any gloves at all. I'm not about to scour the entire station for a matching glove ID on the AI bridge door, only to find out that it was the captain, again.

[cgrn10]

I definitely use forensics a lot as sec and have moderate success with it. You see someone wearing red gloves? Just check. Yellow? Check, it's not really a hard system. If they go through the hassle of getting insulated gloves, it's probably just as easy as getting cleaner to throw on the door. I don't see the point in it.

If anything I'd like to see sec get some gloves that block the print as well, like blue/black latex gloves that function differently.

[Frank_Stein]

I definitely use forensics a lot as sec and have moderate success with it. You see someone wearing red gloves? Just check. Yellow? Check, it's not really a hard system. If they go through the hassle of getting insulated gloves, it's probably just as easy as getting cleaner to throw on the door. I don't see the point in it.

If anything I'd like to see sec get some gloves that block the print as well, like blue/black latex gloves that function differently.

Yeah I always make a mental note to disregard those most recent prints.

Maybe add a thing to the scanner where it will ignore prints and fibers that you set it to ignore?

[APARTHEID]

This suggestion makes absolutely no sense as someone wearing something like a pair of boxing gloves wouldn't even be able to touch whatever they're carrying with what could leave a fingerprint.

The system is fine as is, ask someone who was running around with them!

[Hikurac]

I definitely use forensics a lot as sec and have moderate success with it. You see someone wearing red gloves? Just check. Yellow? Check, it's not really a hard system. If they go through the hassle of getting insulated gloves, it's probably just as easy as getting cleaner to throw on the door. I don't see the point in it.

If anything I'd like to see sec get some gloves that block the print as well, like blue/black latex gloves that function differently.

Yeah I always make a mental note to disregard those most recent prints.

Maybe add a thing to the scanner where it will ignore prints and fibers that you set it to ignore?

That would definitely alleviate some of the burden of memorizing them. Either that, or let players add notes to prints and glove codes. 

I.e. red leather fibers (Glove ID: uok7ftugvo) Note: This is Officer Bob

[Frank_Stein]

If anything, maybe we should think about eliminating redundancy with the forensic scanner.

Why do we have to scan something to get a code, then use the scanner in hand to open a prompt, copy and paste the previous code, and then get a new message of who it belongs to. Why not just have a hyperlink in the code that tells you the other, or automatically include that info?

[Hikurac]

If anything, maybe we should think about eliminating redundancy with the forensic scanner.

Why do we have to scan something to get a code, then use the scanner in hand to open a prompt, copy and paste the previous code, and then get a new message of who it belongs to. Why not just have a hyperlink in the code that tells you the other, or automatically include that info?

So, something along the lines of this?:

Forensic analysis of Black Gloves

Isolated fingerprints:
45f879bc1f036e99997c5c1b3c803bd9 Urist McGreytide Add Note: Something something important note

Isolated blood samples:
Unable to locate any blood traces.

Material analysis: nvpe7ue1r3 (black leather fibers) Add Note: Something something important glove ID note

[Frank_Stein]

Yeah, or clicking the code reveals that extra info, or is how you add notes, etc