Inter-Departmental Cooperation (co-op)

[Cyfarfod]

words

stuff

jesus i use too many words

Well once you know HOW to make the best hellburns, the main thing science is good for in engineering is supply.
Not like those lazy fucks are using it anyway.

Roger, just clarifying.

[Nnystyxx]

*IF* these were the only two choices, would people prefer-

Robotics can make cool synthetic limbs/eyeballs/implants/STUFF that aids in specific jobs (radiation resistance implant?  eyeball implant that replaces goggles?  robot limb that holds a shitload of water and lets you skip carrying a watering can?  assume this also means automated  bots to do specific things, like watering plants or collecting ore and dropping it in the nani-crucible.)

OR

Scientists/mechanics/engineers/someone make components that the roboticist then assembles into the finished product which is then given to the people that need it?

How BIG do we want the supply chain to be?

I'd go with more implants, cooperation doesn't necessarily mean that you have a massive supply chain. Robotics could use more varied implants, especially ones useful to miners and QM's. Some useful implants for miners could be:

• Plasma cutter eye implants 
  
• Drill arm replacement
  
• Automatic mining scanner/meson eye implants.
  
• Implanted jet pack/jet boots
  
• Oxygen recycler implant
  
• Ore scoop/satchel arm replacement
  

• Hydraulic Crate-lifting claw arm replacement 
  

i add my vote to implants, there's code for usable implants that work like powers (eye lasers made with erebite) and existing background icons for using said implants

[Vitatroll]

I like the idea of 'encouraged' cooperation, but ultimately see it as a train wreck. Cooperation is a good thing. Synergistic cooperation with no dependencies, anyways. The problem is building synergy without dependency: without a sense of 'those lazy bastards are holding me back'. It'd likely boil down to a system of automatic and immediate gain with little crew interaction. Like, points for 'doing your job' that can be used to 'buy' job related items, like saltpetre for botanists or fancy medications for doctors.

Not very romantic an idea, but people have to gain from their effort. Even people who cooperate now do it because it's fun for them. It's obvious that most of us are just jerks though.

[Cyfarfod]

*IF* these were the only two choices, would people prefer-

Robotics can make cool synthetic limbs/eyeballs/implants/STUFF that aids in specific jobs (radiation resistance implant?  eyeball implant that replaces goggles?  robot limb that holds a shitload of water and lets you skip carrying a watering can?  assume this also means automated  bots to do specific things, like watering plants or collecting ore and dropping it in the nani-crucible.)

OR

Scientists/mechanics/engineers/someone make components that the roboticist then assembles into the finished product which is then given to the people that need it?

How BIG do we want the supply chain to be?

I'd go with more implants, cooperation doesn't necessarily mean that you have a massive supply chain. Robotics could use more varied implants, especially ones useful to miners and QM's. Some useful implants for miners could be:

• Plasma cutter eye implants 
  
• Drill arm replacement
  
• Automatic mining scanner/meson eye implants.
  
• Implanted jet pack/jet boots
  
• Oxygen recycler implant
  
• Ore scoop/satchel arm replacement
  

• Hydraulic Crate-lifting claw arm replacement 
  

i add my vote to implants, there's code for usable implants that work like powers (eye lasers made with erebite) and existing background icons for using said implants

Agreed, I also think it'd be cool if humans could have one non-limb-replacing implant, sort of like how borgs get modules. Then you're stuck choosing- do I want implanted oxygen reserves? Do I want radiation resistance? Do I want a built-in defib for when I go crib? Do I want, do I want, do I want? Limiting it to one means genetics stays relevant, as while that is more random (at round start, at least) you can have a several of them.

[LuigiThirty]

I think being able to dump cryo chems or fire chems into the engine would be helpful for getting chemists to actually make something useful for a change. Add some kind of liquid injector for the hot and cold loops. About to blow the pipes in the hot loop? Throw some cryostylane in to cool it down or buy some time.

[cgrn10]

Someone had brought up persistent materials between rounds before, I think for the building server that once existed, and had said that cross round things like that weren't possible with byond.

[Crystalwarrior]

Cross round things aren't possible you say?
Why, character persistence and saving must be one big hoax then!!!1

Seriously tho byond has persistence

[cgrn10]

I tried my hand at byond coding it was scary and I never looked at it again so I can't say from my perspective, but this is what a coder told me some time ago! I mean persistence as in changing the map not like a text file with my fart space mans name.

[Nnystyxx]

synergistic cooperation, not interdependency
interdependency is how you get the hilariously toxic relationship between tg mining and tg research/robotics
actually tg research and EVERYTHING, because it involves tons of ores and also literally thieving objects from other departments CONSTANTLY

[ferriswheel1]

synergistic cooperation, not interdependency
interdependency is how you get the hilariously toxic relationship between tg mining and tg research/robotics
actually tg research and EVERYTHING, because it involves tons of ores and also literally thieving objects from other departments CONSTANTLY

I quite like the relationship between robotics/mining and research/mining on tg, what with the miners hauling ore to science in exchange for cool mining gadgets. The big problem with it though, is the absolute dependence upon the other guy doing their job to progress.

Making it more cooperative rather than dependent would, I think, require there be a way for players to acquire the tools/resources/whatever independently. In the example of materials, there's already a trader that sells them, and they can also be bought by the QM.

[Superlagg]

I tried my hand at byond coding it was scary and I never looked at it again so I can't say from my perspective, but this is what a coder told me some time ago! I mean persistence as in changing the map not like a text file with my fart space mans name.

Hm.

If what we're carrying from round-to-round is just a bunch of items, like our banana and mauxite stocks accessed through some kind of object, maybe that could be stored in a text file that byond reads at mapload and writes as the game ends.

This, of course, assumes that:
* byond can write in-game variables'n'shit to a file.
* byond can later read that shit.
* byond can interpret that shit into item stocks.
* it isnt an absolute nightmare to work with.

I know that byond can build logs of our shenanigans and maybe even store them after the round ends. But, I don't know if that kind of file or writing method could produce something that would help this in any way.

[Tarmunora]

Cross-round persistence would have to be limited somehow. Otherwise, if you have a solid PTL firing and a merchant selling gold bars, you would have a ridiculous stockpile of cash. Additionally, if the miners can just save some ores between rounds, then they could practically always have industrial armour in the first few minutes.

Worst-case scenario I can think of is someone storing armour materials, spear parts, starstone, etc. in a round, and then popping a token in the next round, saving themselves 40 minutes of setup for their stimulants (or whatever chem does work) infused gloves, iridium spear, indy suit, mechboots, etc.

I like the idea, but there would need to be some way of preventing abuse. (Though I guess just making it illegal to do so would be a viable, if somewhat ham-fisted solution)

[Frank_Stein]

Personally, I prefer all rounds to be self-contained, but I dunno how much having a cross round persistence would contribute to interdepartment cooperation.

[Dr Zoidcrab]

I get the feeling that cross-round persistance would end up with a lot of "well theres a shit ton of everything my department can produce this round so theres no point in even doing my job" and "Botany makes tons of medicine in a fraction of the time it takes us to make a few beakers, theres no point to making helpful reagents with chemistry" etc.

[Technature]

My personal thought on the perfect Cooperative station is simple.

Every department can reach their best on their own, but will do it faster if they help one another.

Adding things that departments only get if they get supplies from someone else (where it matters, stuff like certain chef recipes aren't a big deal) means people that want the best for their buddies are screwed if the resources won't cooperate, or worse, are outright hostile against them for their own reasons (Traitor, Ling, Mindslave, asshole). And that isn't even going into if the department is understaffed or destroyed.

If however, outside assistance isn't necessary but does speed up the process exponentially, people will be encouraged to work together while not being down the shitter should required departments be unable or unwilling to assist.

Naturally, how to do it is on a case by case basis, and even if it's implemented in some way it's probably best to assume it won't be used the mass majority of the time (I mean, how often do people ask things of mining, and of those times, how often do they actually send materials?).