Tasers are bad. Stun bullets too.

[Dauntasa]

It's pretty funny how people ask for bigger tasers. There's the revolvers too now, with real bullets.

How to spot a bad officer: they're using lethal force.

Revolvers should be a weapon of last resort, not a replacement taser

i'm honestly in favour of making sec weapons more lethal just so that Sec is more likely to ignore really petty things because it'd be tricky to stop them with just a baton and not worth it to gun them down

[Dauntasa]

it might be best to add a kind of halfway state between normal and stunned where you can't use items but don't drop them and can still move

like dazed or staggered or something, and have most things do that instead of actually stunning. Make it so that if you are, say, flashbanged or something you get dazed. you keep hold of your weapon and can move around a bit, but you can't attack and any hit from a melee weapon will knock you down/out. So instead of Sec throws a flashbang into a room with a traitor and then leisurely strolls in and cuffs him, they'd have to rush in afterward and crack a baton over his head to finish him off before he recovered.

[Marquesas]

This actually exists. You need two taser hits to be completely downed, after the first one you're only confused.

[Sundance]

It's pretty funny how people ask for bigger tasers. There's the revolvers too now, with real bullets.

How to spot a bad officer: they're using lethal force.

Revolvers should be a weapon of last resort, not a replacement taser

i'm honestly in favour of making sec weapons more lethal just so that Sec is more likely to ignore really petty things because it'd be tricky to stop them with just a baton and not worth it to gun them down

I haven't been able to play, but am I right in thinking that sec get access to revolvers with bleeding damage, i.e: Lethal force?

I'm getting deja vu here.. I encourage anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about to skim over this thread, the thread about removing eguns: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1496&hilit=riot+shotguns
So basically we've moved from:
"Lethal's bad, stuns are good!"
to
"Stuns are lame, Bullets are fun!"


Yeah, I like the idea of prolonging gunfights, and making it fun for both parties.
But we're blurring the lines when security starts pulling revolvers on traitors who are doing the same. Security don't need revolvers, we need tasers that don't fuck up traitors fights so radically, without security first-hand arsenal being nerfed to shit. Unless we want the new brig to be the morgue.

[Clarks]

Hi, I opened that thread, and it was nothing about removing lethal eguns for stun.

Four eguns that hold 8+ shots and switch from stun to laser were too fat a target for any traitor to steal, and too good a weapon for security to use against vampires/wizards/changelings.
I wanted them to be replaced with something less coveted, I was not going for one single idea about how.

And again, like Dauntasa and I said, having lethal bullets should encourage cops to restrain themselves, rather than just shooting everyone with the excuse that tasers don't kill.

[Sundance]

Hi, I opened that thread, and it was nothing about removing lethal eguns for stun.

Four eguns that hold 8+ shots and switch from stun to laser were too fat a target for any traitor to steal, and too good a weapon for security to use against vampires/wizards/changelings.
I wanted them to be replaced with something less coveted, I was not going for one single idea about how.

And again, like Dauntasa and I said, having lethal bullets should encourage cops to restrain themselves, rather than just shooting everyone with the excuse that tasers don't kill.

That's all fine and dandy that you made that thread, but I'm not pointing the finger at you. Yet.

I don't understand where you're coming from at all, I think actually you're completely deluded that security will "restrain" themselves now that they have lethal bullets, and I'd like you to show me evidence that this is so.
This is your bread-and-butter sec officer we're talking about here, not a HoS who knows what the meaning of restrain is. The fact of the matter is that traitors will be shot, with revolver bullets. I can't fathom WHEN this should EVEN be an option, other than for abominations, vampires, and operatives. In-fact drugged users used to be on that list but now that's less of an option with the dart rifle. THIS IS THE WAY WE SHOULD'VE BEEN GOING
Do you know how loathed a detective is when he's using lethal? Or is your agenda to make security even more loathed?

Can you tell me what do you do after you shot the traitor to death? You can leave him if you're an asshole, or you can clone him, if you have access. The cloning process takes 5 minutes or more (#WOAH, THATS LONGER THAN A BRIG TIME) and their traitor items are pilfered, unless you want to be a really nice/hypocrite/waste of security time and wait at genetics and give him back his items after you murdered him, if he's not gone braindead.

The issue was with tasers being boring, stun-u-lose, which I whole heartily agree. It seems your issue is what happens AFTER they are captured, i.e: when they are brigged. If you have a complaint about that, go make another thread about how to fix it, and I'll put my worst and boring 2c, as always.
If you think that the revolvers are a good addition, giving sec officers lethal option straight off the bat (and giving traitors with security access, access to it too) when we were making strides away from this, then I'm going to tell you that you haven't an iota of what your talking about.

[Shoddy]

"The cloning process takes 5 minutes or more (#WOAH, THATS LONGER THAN A BRIG TIME)"

This is untrue, it takes about 2 or 3 minutes.

Sundance is right that security will not restrain themselves, I have seen this in action.

the dart gun kind of works for subduing drugged up maniacs, however the average security officer does not have access to the dart gun.

the revolvers don't work without the detective getup last time I checked, so it's more like an ammo resevoir for the detective if he runs out of rounds, which is good.

also lol at the guys getting increasingly madde at eachother.

[Cogwerks]

I removed the detective-lock on the .38 because it was really silly that you couldn't steal his gun and turn it around on him. Putting them in the sec vendors was also an attempt to make those things more attractive for looting - although I could put a pricetag on it, maybe? It's a lot weaker than a laser, certainly. Revolver fights are really fun though, they're more entertaining than taser fights. It's just another option to make more play styles possible. Chump guards who pull a revolver out at the wrong time are pretty likely to have it stolen from them asap anyways.

As far as discouraging guards from going after petty crime by only giving them lethal ammo, I don't really agree with that idea at all. If you have fun arresting people for vandalism or trespassing or whatever, go right the hell ahead. Probably not the best use of time or resources if there's a rampage going on elsewhere, but the possibility of traitors being around doesn't make all other crimes irrelevant if the traitors aren't generating much radio noise yet. Security's job isn't to be a paramilitary force, they're supposed to maintain public safety and order. I like to think of them as being more like mall cops or county cops way in over their head, not traitor-hunters who only go after people they're allowed to kill.

I'm hoping that this change will make tasers a little more interesting to work with and work around, it's not really meant to be a huge nerf. Just complicates things a bit past "zap once, you won."

[Convair880]

Well, the average security guard has replaced the taser with a .38 as their weapon of choice. I've seen a lot of blood stains, discarded speedloaders and surgeries lately, so they are probably using lethal ammo against everybody...because stunner rounds don't cause bleeding. And I also doubt that these guys make a distinction between legit enemies of the station, troublemakers and people which somehow annoyed them. To an extend, I can understand them - the taser is not necessarily worth the inventory slot anymore. Does the nerf really justify the negative implications of this?

[Sundance]

"The cloning process takes 5 minutes or more (#WOAH, THATS LONGER THAN A BRIG TIME)"

This is untrue, it takes about 2 or 3 minutes.

2-3 minutes byond time? You still wake up ID'less, naked and more than likely pilfered.

..Revolver fights are really fun though, they're more entertaining than taser fights. It's just another option to make more play styles possible...

..I'm hoping that this change will make tasers a little more interesting to work with and work around, it's not really meant to be a huge nerf. Just complicates things a bit past "zap once, you won."..

The crux of my argument is to make taser fights fun for both parties while maintaining balance, making security using tasers balanced with traitors using revolver, the end result being the officer shot dead, or the traitor captured. If the end result is the traitor being dead 90% of the time then we have a serious issue.

[Clarks]

If you have fun arresting people for vandalism or trespassing or whatever, go right the hell ahead.

The cops who go after vandals usually do it in a superserious way. It's the guys who strip you and give you 2:30 for stealing a jetpack.
It's pretty rare for some cop to use these arrest for interrogations that are fun for both him and the prisoner. Once -I was a traitor though- I pretended to be deaf after throwing flashbangs at flarearms and led him into an overly long but funny questioning written on paper.
Or to quickly round up a couple of people in the brig for a prison wrestling match, or anything that requires some imagination and er pee. Most rounds people are just dicking about anyway, anything thst spices up a round is welcome.

But most cops just give you 2:30 and leave.

[DrivetimeMozol]

I haven't seen the sec vending machines lately so I don't know exactly what's in them, but I think if sec is using revolvers there should be limited lethal ammo. Like 4 speed loaders per vending machine. I honestly wouldn't want each sec officer having enough ammo to kill >3 people. At least this way the shitty sec man that shoots the guy to death who just stapled him won't have as much ammo to take on a real threat.

Also I think that sec shouldn't use revolvers, just detective should. Maybe they could use a more modern looking p226 that holds 7-8 rounds (I don't know guns) that's also a bit weaker? Imo it fits with the job and their other gear better.

[Weavel]

"shitty sec might kill someone" is the same argument everyone has ever said about any lethal weapon on station ever

shitty people will be shit no matter what item is available, and they will more than likely be removed pretty quick!!
it's not like they can dispense those awful wooden police batons or TK serums, they still have to do their job properly as well

[BillyMays]

What if sec guards had a one use, ranged taser? After you use it, You'd have to get another one from sectech or even order some from QM.

[Archenteron]

What if sec guards had a one use, ranged taser? After you use it, You'd have to get another one from sectech or even order some from QM.

Throwable stun batons, just saying (again).