Turn top half of genetics into cloning.

[BaneOfGiygas]

We can argue all day long about why people don't like playing as cyborgs (and, hell, I might open up a thread on the topic later today), but I think that the point I was trying to make earlier got lost under my dissertations.

That point is thusly: Changing how cloning works and access to and from it in order to convenience Robotics is ultimately pointless because the reason why Roboticists don't borg corpses isn't for a lack of corpses, it's because they KNOW that not many people like playing as cyborgs and therefore don't even bother half of the time, and also because making a cyborg is incredibly resource-intensive and tedious, whereas cloning is as simple as sticking a body in the corner, hitting a few buttons, and waiting for a while.

[Frank_Stein]

Borging is a pretty viable option for when there isn't time to clone. It takes significantly less time to get a frame constructed than it does to wait for the cloner.

[BaneOfGiygas]

As a solution for situations in which waiting for the cloner isn't an option due to the shuttle or other time constraints, then yeah, it is definitely viable. But it's a little bit more complicated and therefore a bit more intimidating for newbies to get the hang of, and cloning is much more simplistic. No matter the reason, most roboticists (traitors excepted) save borging for either a last resort in case of time constraints or a rotted body, punishment for antagonists, or for people who WANT to be a cyborg. It's never really been a go-to option for the revival of dead players, and in its current state, I don't think it ever will be.

[Paineframe]

Are you kidding? As a roboticist I'll borg any body I can get my hands on, because that's the only useful thing the roboticist can do (other than swap power cells for whiny borgs), and also because it's the only way to get butts for the only bot that needs to be manually built (as opposed to just pressing a button on the fabricator).

[salix_catus]

Isn't one of the intentions of having the cloner next to the window (Where it is now) to allow for it to be externally bombed?

but that's so incridebly easy to do. surely it'd be more fun for traitors if taking the cloner down required actual strategy.

[Crumplehat]

So where do we move the cloner when doctors get bored with cloning people and start neglecting it too?

Engineering?

I'm sorry I just don't see how this passive-aggressive bullshit helps improve med-genetics relationships in the slightest. Making it more of a pain for them to do their job isn't going to make them more likely to do it.

There is no way, no how, that the problem is so bad that it needs this kind of reaction. At least 50% of ss13 is you getting fucked over by someone not doing their job. How should what happens after you die be any different in that regard?

[salix_catus]

So where do we move the cloner when doctors get bored with cloning people and start neglecting it too?

Engineering?

I'm sorry I just don't see how this passive-aggressive bullshit helps improve med-genetics relationships in the slightest. Making it more of a pain for them to do their job isn't going to make them more likely to do it.

There is no way, no how, that the problem is so bad that it needs this kind of reaction. At least 50% of ss13 is you getting fucked over by someone not doing their job. How should what happens after you die be any different in that regard?

Passive aggressive Bullshit? dude, that's some mighty pessimism you got there. I don't think you properly understand anything suggested.
this suggestion makes both the geneticist's and doctor's jobs easier, not more painful.
Geneticists are still the cloning head honchos, and doctors are their underlings(doctors have more difficult access to biomass and the recent cloning update will mean the geneticists will want to be in charge of the cloner) .
Geneticists have more security, yet can manage the cloning room with ease.
Doctors can drop off and scan bodies and not have to break into the place all the time.
Traitors won't have the boredom of a space exposed cloner that is really easy to destroy from space. they will have to come up with fun schemes like putting explosives into a corpses bag, then setting it off when it reaches the cloner.

[Crumplehat]

I'm sorry for being a schmuck in my last post, I'll try to be more constructive. (Also I was hoping to post this before someone else posted but it looks like I failed).

A suggestion that cropped up in the other thread was to go the other route, and just make Genetics smaller, to sort of force the issue of people leaving bodies where geneticists can actually see them.

I've done this before myself, to some success, even before this incarnation of the station was implemented. The issue was the same back then, as far as I'm concerned. Most of the time when I get people breaking into genetics, it's people who haven't once come down to where I can see or hear them to tell me they have a body to clone. They just leave it near the north entrance without a word, and then someone comes later to find a pile I didn't know was there, and they break in thinking I'm AFK. My fix for this was to bolt open that north airlock, and set up a bunch of r-tables along that same line, like a desk where I could see it. This let people just shove bodies onto the table so I could take them and clone them without worrying so much about people breaking in and stealing stuff or causing a ruckus, while still allowing people to bring me bodies to clone. The only problem was when people wouldn't bother to put them up on the desk, so it was an inelegant solution, but just moving the airlocks down there might not be a bad idea.

The main problem with allowing wider access to the cloner is that it makes things harder for certain traitors. As it stands, you can take out the two geneticists without much issue and that's that, people won't realize there's a problem for a while and that whole time the cloner's out of commission. Allowing medical access means you'd have to murder all of medbay for the same effect.

[BaneOfGiygas]

And, with all due respect to our administration, most of the public statements I've seen about this seem to take on a dishearteningly apathetic tone to this whole debacle. An overwhelming majority of people around here will tell you that this is a problem if you ask, at LEAST three threads have been made on this subject, and I get the feeling that there are going to be a lot more unless something is done to make it more bearable. This is a problem, a really fucking big problem, and not doing anything about it is going to make a lot of people really frustrated.

[salix_catus]

I'm sorry for being a schmuck in my last post, I'll try to be more constructive. (Also I was hoping to post this before someone else posted but it looks like I failed).

A suggestion that cropped up in the other thread was to go the other route, and just make Genetics smaller, to sort of force the issue of people leaving bodies where geneticists can actually see them.

I've done this before myself, to some success, even before this incarnation of the station was implemented. The issue was the same back then, as far as I'm concerned. Most of the time when I get people breaking into genetics, it's people who haven't once come down to where I can see or hear them to tell me they have a body to clone. They just leave it near the north entrance without a word, and then someone comes later to find a pile I didn't know was there, and they break in thinking I'm AFK. My fix for this was to bolt open that north airlock, and set up a bunch of r-tables along that same line, like a desk where I could see it. This let people just shove bodies onto the table so I could take them and clone them without worrying so much about people breaking in and stealing stuff or causing a ruckus, while still allowing people to bring me bodies to clone. The only problem was when people wouldn't bother to put them up on the desk, so it was an inelegant solution, but just moving the airlocks down there might not be a bad idea.

The main problem with allowing wider access to the cloner is that it makes things harder for certain traitors. As it stands, you can take out the two geneticists without much issue and that's that, people won't realize there's a problem for a while and that whole time the cloner's out of commission. Allowing medical access means you'd have to murder all of medbay for the same effect.

Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head here. the upper part of genetics just gets in the way.
In all honesty I don't think any map layout changes will happen because cogmap 2 is near enough for it to seem like wasted effort.

[Isilkor]

This is a problem, a really fucking big problem, and not doing anything about it is going to make a lot of people really frustrated.

You're really making mountains out of molehills here. Maybe I just don't understand why getting revived after dying is some kind of utter necessity, but having the cloner unmanned is not "a really fucking big problem" at all. People get frustrated when they die and don't get revived, okay. That kind of stuff happens. People also get frustrated if they spawn and immediately catch an acid spit to the face because the other guy in Botany is a changeling.

[BaneOfGiygas]

Maybe it isn't a necessity and I'm overestimating the cloner's importance, I'll concede that. But why would something designed to revive the dead exist if it isn't going to be used? Dying is something that happens and learning to accept that is part of being able to play on Goonstation, and I understand that circumstances can lead to cloning people being a really hazardous prospect.

But none of that invalidates the two facts that it would be really nice to have a second change and that it's really frustrating when you can't for no reason other than no one giving a shit. If people weren't getting cloned because the geneticists were busying themselves with more pressing matters than reviving some random Staff Assistant, than it would be okay, but if they're literally in the same damn room as the cloner and don't feel like pushing a few buttons in favor of being able to make everyone compulsively fart or whatever, it feels kind of shitty.

[Frank_Stein]

Doesn't the cloner now research genes of the people being cloned?

[DyssalC]

This is a problem, a really fucking big problem, and not doing anything about it is going to make a lot of people really frustrated.

You're really making mountains out of molehills here. Maybe I just don't understand why getting revived after dying is some kind of utter necessity, but having the cloner unmanned is not "a really fucking big problem" at all. People get frustrated when they die and don't get revived, okay. That kind of stuff happens. People also get frustrated if they spawn and immediately catch an acid spit to the face because the other guy in Botany is a changeling.

Imagine if a Security Officer watched you get stripped and beaten to death, or a Medical Doctor watched you gasp for air as you died of severe injuries.

That's why people get mad about Geneticists watching their corpses rot. It's their job to clone. Plain and simple.

[Ed Venture]

So today sitting in dead chat with other people waiting to get cloned, but as I am reading deadchat I learn that the geneticist has not cloned anyone the whole round are was just going for super powers. In fact a clown of all people was stopping by every 15 mins and was slowly cloning any bodies he could (cause most were rotten). As the bodies started piling up someone yelled at the geneticist about how he should be doing his job and mock him cause the clown was doing it and he replied

"Logondo Mondo says, "Fuck that, I want to play geneticist to make super powers, fuck cloning""

This issue is just getting worse and nothing is being done to fix it in the least. Hell you don't even have to fuck with med sci set up. You could just give the Doctors access to med sci to use the scanner or just give the MD one.