New Wizard Appears After Old One Dies

[Ali0en]

This would just make wizard mode officially DEATHMATCH MODE WITH MAGIC. I don't like it.

[Marquesas]

I agree with Dyssal, this sort of locks in the wizard's options, which already is a problem.

[jflan17]

This would be a fun admin round idea, though.

[Klayboxx]

How the heck does it lock up their options? That straight up doesn't compute in my brain how it would change anything about a wizard round other than another one spawns afterwards.

[DyssalC]

How the heck does it lock up their options? That straight up doesn't compute in my brain how it would change anything about a wizard round other than another one spawns afterwards.

Because more people would want the wizards dead so that THEY could become the wizard, meaning you'd have loads of people just arming up to hunt the wizard in hopes that when a new wizard cycles in they become the new wizard, and if they don't well then they'll just have to hunt down the next wizard and the one after that and so on.

And of course the best way to deal with this is to just spam Magic Missile, Fireball, and Ei Nath until everyone swarming you is dead.

Yes, a skilled wizard COULD just use other spells to stun them and do their thing with golems and cluwnings and pandemonium, but considering how rare wizard is there aren't many skilled wizards, and this won't help people get better because it's going to make everyone more aggressive, thus limiting the lifespan of any new wizards to about the amount of time it takes to write out a salty rant about how everyone is a vigilante.

[Sundance]

I dont understand the logic behind some of the counter-reasons to why this should be in-game

Sometimes a wiz dies after 5 minutes, that's a bummer.
But ALOT of wizards last for a significant amount of time. Adding a 40-60 minute timer just means that the crew is gonna need to survive that long, there'll be 4-5 wizards per round, tops. I'd say on average this would mean 3 wizards per round. WOOW.
Nothing is stopping a wiz from choosing griefing spells, it'll just take him longer to reach his objectives, if he chooses to follow them at all.
When I choose wiz, I give fuck all about the objectives and often choose my spells in order to maximize my gimmick. Adding the suggestion in-game would only affect me in:
A) The crew can't call the shuttle early and will have to deal with me.
B) If I die, I will be replaced. This only encourages me to do my gimmick, seen as i'm "replaceable"
and most importantly:
C) I can choose have a griefy/gimmicky/hazardous round instead of the kill2win/follow objectives/stay alive rounds as I know that there's i'll get a wizard round more often than I would if this wasn't in.

The reasoning as to people will choose to kill the wizard in order to become a wizard and so you get an asshole murder cycle is about as strong as the counter-reason as to why people may want to keep the wizard alive or captured. Chances are, if the wizard dies, you won't be chosen, so it'll be handy to keep hold of the wizard instead of murdering him as it'll waste the wizards time, while shit gets repaired/people cloned. Then if you want to euthanize him kindly, shave his beard. Then he'll be replaced. And then release him into the wild where he'll be either accidently murdered by the other wiz or suicides from disgrace.

[Klayboxx]

How the heck does it lock up their options? That straight up doesn't compute in my brain how it would change anything about a wizard round other than another one spawns afterwards.

Because more people would want the wizards dead so that THEY could become the wizard, meaning you'd have loads of people just arming up to hunt the wizard in hopes that when a new wizard cycles in they become the new wizard, and if they don't well then they'll just have to hunt down the next wizard and the one after that and so on.

And of course the best way to deal with this is to just spam Magic Missile, Fireball, and Ei Nath until everyone swarming you is dead.

Yes, a skilled wizard COULD just use other spells to stun them and do their thing with golems and cluwnings and pandemonium, but considering how rare wizard is there aren't many skilled wizards, and this won't help people get better because it's going to make everyone more aggressive, thus limiting the lifespan of any new wizards to about the amount of time it takes to write out a salty rant about how everyone is a vigilante.

The best way to win as a wizard is to spam Magic Missile, Fireball, and Ei Nath. Who knew? People could still do gimmick wizard stuff, and honestly no one should be happy to see a wizard. Getting chosen as a wizard would be completely random, and since you'd have to be alive, there is more incentive to avoid the wizard if anything. Really it can't be a bad thing to make idiots who protect wizards less likely to do so.

[mozi]

btw

Cluwnes should have 0% chance of being selected as replacement wizard

No escape.

[DyssalC]

Because more people would want the wizards dead so that THEY could become the wizard, meaning you'd have loads of people just arming up to hunt the wizard in hopes that when a new wizard cycles in they become the new wizard, and if they don't well then they'll just have to hunt down the next wizard and the one after that and so on.

And of course the best way to deal with this is to just spam Magic Missile, Fireball, and Ei Nath until everyone swarming you is dead.

Yes, a skilled wizard COULD just use other spells to stun them and do their thing with golems and cluwnings and pandemonium, but considering how rare wizard is there aren't many skilled wizards, and this won't help people get better because it's going to make everyone more aggressive, thus limiting the lifespan of any new wizards to about the amount of time it takes to write out a salty rant about how everyone is a vigilante.

The best way to win as a wizard is to spam Magic Missile, Fireball, and Ei Nath. Who knew? People could still do gimmick wizard stuff, and honestly no one should be happy to see a wizard. Getting chosen as a wizard would be completely random, and since you'd have to be alive, there is more incentive to avoid the wizard if anything. Really it can't be a bad thing to make idiots who protect wizards less likely to do so.

But the thing is that a golem wizard or cluwne wizard or pandemonium wizard immediately makes themselves more vulnerable by taking those spells because they aren't primarily/directly offensive, as in those are spells that either won't save the wizard's ass or aren't reliable enough to save the wizard's ass, and the players will know you are more vulnerable BECAUSE you have these spells.

And yes, the fact that you have to be alive in order to be considered will give incentive to SOME to avoid the wizard, but I still believe that the staff assistant mentality will overcome self-preservation and it'll just promote wiz-round vigilantes, which is already a big enough problem as it is without giving even more reason to hunt them. Even though getting made wiz is a random chance it's still A CHANCE. It still means that if you kill the wizard you will have a chance at becoming wiz.

[Frank_Stein]

Give the wizard a one use disciple spell. That person should become a wizard lite, randomly getting one of the wizards other three spells. When the mentor wizard is dead, they get the rest. Let Sith Rule of two apply

[Marquesas]

People could still do gimmick wizard stuff

Hey, I can choose to play changeling by grabbing people in crowded areas and eating them in the middle of said crowd, but I do have to put up with the fact that it reduces my life expectancy to 30 seconds.

In my books this is a good way to make the already sort of dull wizard mode into outright terrible, that coupled with the fact that it promotes "do something to become an antagonist" behaviour, I'll just stamp this with the Literally Hitler Seal of Disapproval.

[Klayboxx]

ok but I really don't get how making another wizard spawn after the first one dies would change anything????????? The people who would normally ignore a wizard/protect a wizard would still do so, while the people who would normally kill wizards will still do so, with added incentive, and it would straight up have zero effect on how wizard plays. You people are seriously arguing that it is bad that people want to kill the guy in the pointy hat making things that kill your buddies. It is not computing in my brain I don't understand?

Like lol at this sudden branding of people who go after antagonists 'vigilantes' as if it's a bad thing. If there is a wizard running around making golems, or murdering people directly, you can't be surprised people are coming after you, and you really shouldn't feel sour that an assistant killed you rather than a security guard.

[Conor12]

ok but I really don't get how making another wizard spawn after the first one dies would change anything????????? The people who would normally ignore a wizard/protect a wizard would still do so, while the people who would normally kill wizards will still do so, with added incentive, and it would straight up have zero effect on how wizard plays.

Most players want to be antagonists. When a player can do something to make themselves an antagonist, they will aggressively go after it.

It definitely changes how people act.

[BaneOfGiygas]

And I would once again like to bring up the fact that this pidgeonholes the Wizards into being, if they have any sense of self-preservation, rampagey antagonists when they easily have the ability to be sneakier, more nuanced ones. It takes options away from Wizards by way of their sheer impracticality in such a brutally aggressive scenario, and since Wizard matches are already almost always "wizard runs around, people die, yay".

As mentioned before, nuclear operatives fit the archetype of a rampagey antagonist type because they have enough variety in their ranks, their capacity for gear, their tactics, and their objectives to make every round relatively varied in its execution. Again, with the wizard, it's literally just "YOU ARE DUDE THAT KILLS THINGS WITH FIERY BOOM BOOMS."

I think that the inherent problem with wizard rounds is that they almost invariably lend themselves to becoming deathmatches. And SS13 doesn't really do deathmatfches very well, if Revolution mode has set any precedent. I think that the Wizard as a round type needs something other than "kill dudes and then kill more dudes" to give it life again.

[RAWK_LAWBSTAR]

Then the wizard should probably get some shiny new spells that people would want to take over the power to explode people with fire.