something needs to be done about greytiding

[DioChasek]

Ok stupid idea that might be a good idea Goon5 Ass server. Only rule is rule 4. When a ban for any behavior (except rule 4) they are only allowed to play on that server for their ban just to get a taste of the pain they have inflicted on others.

[Chayot]

I do not believe "Greytiding" is a problem per-se.
We're low RP, Goon1. Goon2 offers the same LRP with lower levels of "greytiding."
Goon 3 & 4 provide an environment in which committing such acts as listed in this thread would likely result in a ban.
To that end, Goon1 is the server in which players can commit crimes without being punished with a ban or warning.
Players are having fun, that is all.

Sure, you may not like a player with an RCD deleting the doors and allowing civilians into security.
Sure, a Secoff killing clones fresh out the vat and arresting the attending medical doctor sounds bad.

And yet there are appropriate functions the crew can enact to combat against abusive contemporaries.
Bad secoffs? Demote. Malicious Crewmember inciting hostile actions against command or the station? Brig.
It should be obvious. We have a variety of means to deal with malignant individuals.
Need be, beat them to death.

I will add, the security officers as of late have been steady and reliable. Fun and decently fluent with the game.
Unlike previous generations of secoffs, they do no seem intent upon causing harm to the crew.
Rather, most-often, they attempt to do their job and have fun at it. Often roleplaying peacefully--something I'd yet seen from Goon1 officers.

Moreover, I do not believe streamers, nor "meme streamers" are any kind of problem.
While I concede, they set the tone for players coming in, the player themselves will eventually learn right and wrong, and choose for themselves whether they will persist in doing wrong, resulting in a ban, or cease their belligerent activities. If they do not wish to participate in this community, they will not.

[TDHooligan]

i do think the key obstacles for tiding should be toughened a bit. the difference between a round with a HoP giving AA and them not joining is night and day

A barely-skilled staffie can still bust into any department in less than two minutes with nothing more than a toolbelt. Muscle memory just makes it worse and worse. Perhaps more action bars could be applied to door hacking etc. alongside the changes for command's doors

as for security, i've come around to the idea of having security's round requirement moved up a bunch, but still don't think it will fix that a depressing amount of security can't handle the power to ruin someone's entire round.

---

And yet there are appropriate functions the crew can enact to combat against abusive contemporaries.
Bad secoffs? Demote. Malicious Crewmember inciting hostile actions against command or the station? Brig.
It should be obvious. We have a variety of means to deal with malignant individuals.
Need be, beat them to death.

while this is valid to an extent, perhaps you haven't dealt with it enough to realise that when you do this, invariably you end up having to spend the entirety of a round handling every wannabe captain or supercop. for every round. is the antag running a cool gimmick you want in on? oh, some staffie is breaking into security for the sixteenth consecutive shift. this is not conducive to a good enjoyable round, that is daycare.

[Deadvickyart]

For example, in a recent game I played the medical director found and cloned a corpse. A security guard walked in, ejected the clone early, beat the clone to death with a baton, pausing briefly to taser and cuff the MD for trying to drag him away, then proceeding to beat the naked clone to death for being 'a mindslave'.

I was there for that round.  There was a giant fucking visible mindslave module sitting on the cloning pod.

This was a pure vampire round.

The easiest solution is to have more experienced sec players get on and start de escalating everything; and if someone is living to crime, put them in the suit of shame and swirly them. They should keep security empty of non security personnel and run it strict for a bit. However, I haven't seen anything too bad, just the occasional shitter. Nothing about now seems any worse then any point before.

This would help a lot, but I just don't see it outside the RP servers. I have avoided interacting with security officers in any capacity as much as I can every round so maybe I'm missing it, but I see officers murdering valids and bragging about it on comms constantly and I literally cannot remember any time the brig has been used in the non rp servers.

Its ridiculous to say the grief problem comes from Sec. I think that attitude of being against sec is really unhealthy for the game. Of course we all saw bad security officers, but not because you saw someone do something bad that all of sec deserves to be griefed. I don't get how removing our tools would help. You gotta remember we need to stop the antags, and that stopping a ling with your bare hand is not very possible.

I play mostly on RP, and the self antagging is a problem there too. Morty is always on extended because of it and its not normal. I've heard many people say they don't enjoy playing on morty anymore because its too chaotic. I've personally had very painful rounds.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think something should be done. Being less lenient towards streamers and youtubers is a good idea, in my opinion.

Security tends to get a lot of regulars, and most of those regulars especially on goon 1 fucking suck. I don't want to name names, but there is definitely 3 or 4 people who I refuse to interact with on any level because they are validhunters of the most obnoxious variety and inveriably will disrupt your round for 15 minutes of strip-searching while they look for an excuse to muder you if they detect a hint of sass or you get in the way of them banking a confirmed kill.

[Cal]

so you got valided and arent happy about it then? I'm not sure what to tell you besides, yes security gets no brownie points for letting you live and if they do so its out of their own kindness

[Deadvickyart]

so you got valided and arent happy about it then? I'm not sure what to tell you besides, yes security gets no brownie points for letting you live and if they do so its out of their own kindness

I don't know where you're going with these weird arguments and the constant assertions that if someone sees or experiences security grief, they deserve it for one reason or another. No I haven't been valided recently, the last time security killed me I was a regular nonantag it was because they threw frag and voltagen grenades into cargo while I was using the terminal in an attempt to kill some antagonist.

Frankly your attitude that security is doing a charity service when they refrain from murdering other players on a whim is probably why you get treated poorly when you play the job. If you act like a psychotic abuser who gets off on violence and thinks nothing of collateral damage, people aren't going to like you!

[Waffleloffle]

I mean if you think the current secoff players are doing a bad job you could try playing it instead to do a better one? it's a game you don't have to stay a sec regular but giving it a test drive would probably be a lot more constructive than swinging some very heavy insults around

[Froggit_Dogget]

yuh. I agree with both of you. There are rounds on main where sec is utter dogshit; but there are also rounds where sec is extremely good.

Its all situational but the mindset of sec is bad, is also bad.

Ill bring up a question, What is the goal of a security officer in a round? 

Is it to kill all antagonists, as some people think? No, Its not, Thats no fun for everyone as it leads to long and boring rounds.

Is it to deal with shitters? Kind of, Thats more of on the right track, but its more then that.

The issue is people take antag status into account. Sec shouldnt take antag status into account at ALL. Securitys job should be to play mallcop, you deal with people based on what they have done, not if theyre a vampire, or whatnot.

Hell, id even go as far as to say securities job is to die a glorious death. Sometimes.

The biggest issue is that some people see the job as to; MAINTAIN POWER AT ALL COSTS. And thats the easiest way to see it. We get lots of new players, who see security as that; or worse, so they can RP as dictators of sorts who allow no fun. This leaves the impression on others that security are tyrants, always. We saw alot of this last year with people meta-grudging HOS players.

There are however, lots of ways to play security. Some of these are bad, some are good, and while one playstyle may be fun one round, it might not a different, depending whose online. 

Vik, to put it bluntly, I think your being too aggressive toward Cal. However I do agree with some of your points. Sec isnt always good, but I also feel like these officers who are bad get weeded out pretty quickly. If not, You can speed up the process by ahelping the situations.

[Danger Noodle]

Vik you seem very biased and are making large generalizations. It seems like you're leaving out many details or don't know things and that makes your picture look better. Play sec for a while and once you've understood what it looks like and feels like try to change up your views from that new experience. If you see anything you see as grief just ahelp it, if you're wrong nothing happens and you haven't wasted anyone's time (It literally takes one command in an admin bot channel to see who the antags are on a given server). And on a sidenote I too really dislike validhunting and getting validhunted, it's no fun.

[ZeWaka]

idk when I've played in the past month there hasn't been much greytiding
just normal tomfoolery and no BS like removing people's headsets

[Chayot]

Yup. It really hasn't been that bad.
Greytiders & Sec-offs alike--the usual suspects for abuse or "shittery"--would be absent from my list of those committing acts such as those listed in this thread.
Contrary to how things used to be, They've often been peacefully de-escalating, roleplaying. or being generally helpful to one-another.

More-so, I see it from experienced players that are probably getting bored and doing things they know they shouldn't.


& TDH, I primarily play HoS, Primarily on Goon1--I speak from my own experiences.

[arkand]

Its ridiculous to say the grief problem comes from Sec. I think that attitude of being against sec is really unhealthy for the game.

i completely agree with both of these statements. Ive had multiple ai rounds with no sec and people self-antagging. And ive had multiple rounds where people just started invading sec because i arrested someone for reasons they didnt know. This ended up with sec getting pipebombed and some botanist being thrown into the grinders(i did that)

P.S. what i wanted to say is that hate targetted at sec is toxic and ruins the game for the haters and the sec members.

[KikiMofo]

Targetted hate towards sec use to be shunned on Goonstation. Use to have people get banned for breaking into sec for no reason. It was punished because that made no one want to play security and having no one in security was lame and made the game worse. Is that no longer how it is?

[jan.antilles]

Targetted hate towards sec use to be shunned on Goonstation. Use to have people get banned for breaking into sec for no reason. It was punished because that made no one want to play security and having no one in security was lame and made the game worse. Is that no longer how it is?

It's more a thing that the current trend on the RP server (at least on Sylvester where I play) is that Sec gets so much consistent RP that we have a ton of Sec regulars, leading to rounds where we have 1-2 antags and a third of the crew is Sec of some flavor. Antags on RP often tend to target Security out of the desire to "not mess up anyone's round who just wants to do their job" so it leads to a dynamic where Sec is always the one getting antag RP and antags are always clashing with Sec. It's not a hateful dynamic and I don't see Sec getting abused or trash talked or anything, but it does lead to non-Sec non-antags getting left out of a lot of the action. It also means that antags get ALL the focus of Sec as soon as they get caught, which is quick because Sec presence is so heavy, and even when Sec has the lightest touch imaginable, it can be frustrating to feel that your gimmick will only last as long as Sec decides it will.

Personally I think it's a trend and it's going to end when more RP regulars switch to other departments and RP consistently, but for now, this is where we are.

[Marc]

Tbh just sounds like OP needs to play on goon2 or Roleplay, Goon1 isn't supposed to be a utopia