Complaint Admin: HauntedAngel - Goon1 - 11/8/2022 at ~ 12 pm EST

[Raffyk]

1. Even if you meant it only IC, I would have still banned you, as telling people to kill themselves is shitty either way. It doesn't matter if you didn't "really" mean it. You still said it. You should not need a specific clarification in the rules stating "telling players to kill themselves is not allowed", as it's common sense that this is an awful thing to say to people.

2. We use day bans to serve as stern warnings - such as repeat rule breaks, or strong offenses. Your particular case is the latter, as telling someone to kill themselves is an incredibly serious offense.

Okie dokie! Understood.

Respectfully, I don't think it's a good thing to leave something that requires a stern warning to be left up to common sense. That's not very helpful to the players, in my opinion. None of the other things on the server that requires stern punishment seem to be left to common sense(At least from my understanding, I might be wrong!). Why should this? Why then not leave some of the other situations that require stern warnings to be left up to common sense? Why should I not need a specific clarification? Other things get specific clarifications. I get it was really shitty to say, and I respect that not being cool. But I think leaving things up to common sense is a great way to allow ambiguity and abuse of rules and edge cases. It comes off as arbitrary to me. I know at the end of the day the rules are arbitrary and subjective, meant to hit a moving target of a fun welcoming environment for everyone. It wasn't common sense to me at the time. Maybe that's a comment on that I'm an outlier, shitty,  toxic person more than it is on the rules. I'd be willing to concede that. But I'm just trying to levy feedback in the hope of improving expectations and the environment for the players of goon. I hope you respect my perspective in that sense.

I didn't know it was an incredibly strong offense, and my honest good-faith critique I can give is that I deserve the warning/punishment, but I just didn't know the expectation was there in that regard, I think with it outlined I would have. I think you should have your more incredibly serious offenses pointed out, much like how well-explained griefing or rule 4 is. In my shitty reasoning at the time, my understanding was as an antagonist as long as I'm not breaking the actual rules of the server, something like telling the other character (and not the person) to kill themself is as in-pocket as literally blowing up the entire station which I could equally do as antag. I get that's not true, and it's too ambiguous and just shitty to say to be that way. I hope you can see how with that reasoning at the time, it was unclear and not common sense to me. I can kidnap someone, or murder them, or enslave them against their will, but I can't tell them to die? That's where my mistaken mind was at the time. In that situation, it isn't so common sense to me, and I think with something being outlined, I might have known and acted differently. I know I'm coming across as a shitty edgy person right now, so I hope you understand I respect your opinion that it should be common sense. I just hope you can see where I'm coming from with "I don't think this is communicated to me as a player as well as I think it could be".

Thanks. Hope to be back on the server tomorrow <3

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1. Even if you meant it only IC, I would have still banned you, as telling people to kill themselves is shitty either way. It doesn't matter if you didn't "really" mean it. You still said it. You should not need a specific clarification in the rules stating "telling players to kill themselves is not allowed", as it's common sense that this is an awful thing to say to people.

2. We use day bans to serve as stern warnings - such as repeat rule breaks, or strong offenses. Your particular case is the latter, as telling someone to kill themselves is an incredibly serious offense.

Okie dokie! Understood.

Respectfully, I don't think it's a good thing to leave something that requires a stern warning to be left up to common sense. That's not very helpful to the players, in my opinion. None of the other things on the server that requires stern punishment seem to be left to common sense(At least from my understanding, I might be wrong!). Why should this? Why then not leave some of the other situations that require stern warnings to be left up to common sense? Why should I not need a specific clarification? Other things get specific clarifications. I get it was really shitty to say, and I respect that not being cool. But I think leaving things up to common sense is a great way to allow ambiguity and abuse of rules and edge cases. It comes off as arbitrary to me. I know at the end of the day the rules are arbitrary and subjective, meant to hit a moving target of a fun welcoming environment for everyone. It wasn't common sense to me at the time. Maybe that's a comment on that I'm an outlier, shitty,  toxic person more than it is on the rules. I'd be willing to concede that. But I'm just trying to levy feedback in the hope of improving expectations and the environment for the players of goon. I hope you respect my perspective in that sense.

I didn't know it was an incredibly strong offense, and my honest good-faith critique I can give is that I deserve the warning/punishment, but I just didn't know the expectation was there in that regard, I think with it outlined I would have. I think you should have your more incredibly serious offenses pointed out, much like how well-explained griefing or rule 4 is. In my shitty reasoning at the time, my understanding was as an antagonist as long as I'm not breaking the actual rules of the server, something like telling the other character (and not the person) to kill themself is as in-pocket as literally blowing up the entire station which I could equally do as antag. I get that's not true, and it's too ambiguous and just shitty to say to be that way. I hope you can see how with that reasoning at the time, it was unclear and not common sense to me. I can kidnap someone, or murder them, or enslave them against their will, but I can't tell them to die? That's where my mistaken mind was at the time. In that situation, it isn't so common sense to me, and I think with something being outlined, I might have known and acted differently. I know I'm coming across as a shitty edgy person right now, so I hope you understand I respect your opinion that it should be common sense. I just hope you can see where I'm coming from with "I don't think this is communicated to me as a player as well as I think it could be".

Thanks. Hope to be back on the server tomorrow <3

 Also just going to preface that I know not knowing the rules is not an excuse for breaking them. I am saying I think this could be communicated better outside just a ban, and that it to me not being communicated clearly is not a justification to have done it. Thanks!