Basic Antags on LLJK1 are *very* needed

[Maegor]

Why did it even get shifted to extended mode anyway?

From what i heard, Rampages when there were no admins, though i was not present at the time

[aft2001]

Also ERP occurred, according to I think someone in OOC or on IRC or on the forums. The ERP was the final straw before action took place to change things.

[babayetu83]

Also ERP occurred, according to I think someone in OOC or on IRC or on the forums. The ERP was the final straw before action took place to change things.

are you serious

[aft2001]

are you serious

Yeah. Though you'll probably need to verify that with an older player or admin.

[Mageziya]

Wait, hold-on. How would the game mode being not-extended prompt ERP? Wouldn't ERP be more likely to happen in extended, when there's jack shit to do or worry about? Or did someone take advantage of a traitor-role to get their grody rocks off?

[Wraithcraft]

Because admins aren't on 1 all the time, so they can't lookout for ERP all the time. They rely solely on Ahelps to identify issues when they aren't on, and unless someone's ghosting to see it, there can't be any slamming down on ERP. That's also why antags were taken out. The lack of administration makes it hard to keep everyone happy during an antag round, especially when the murderbone happens. Unfortunately, unless you like /whitelist/ the server or something, there's hardly any solution to that problem.

Also, I do remember when the ERP happened. I was there the fateful day LLJK1 was taken off of secret... forever. Also, the people/person who did the ERP were disgusting as all hell. It wasn't even like kinky, it was just... gross. There was a particular scene where I was in the bridge, and someone was pinned up against the window and some ickaroni happened.

[Ed Venture]

The explanations given recently and the current state of the RP server makes me think it was never supposed to be. Sad really.

[aft2001]

Well, why not give it a shot again? Just give much harsher punishments to those who do stupid/disgusting shit like griefing and ERP, and also have admin-picked users with some admin abilities, such as kicking and PMs and the like (nothing related to affected the server en-masse or cluwning or whatever)

[Frank_Stein]

Wait, hold-on. How would the game mode being not-extended prompt ERP? Wouldn't ERP be more likely to happen in extended, when there's jack shit to do or worry about? Or did someone take advantage of a traitor-role to get their grody rocks off?

Yeah I'm going to need an actual admin to weigh in on this because it makes no sense

Unless it was put on extended to drive the server population down in some kinda attempt to make it more manageable, but that seems really counter intuitive and wasteful and I can't see that being the case

[Flourish]

I think the objectives for the traitors would probably have to be modified a bit, if this were to happen, as the purpose of them would be for RP and making things interesting (and not making people miserable or killing them/taking them out of the game). This also leads to some concerns about the other antags you listed (changelings and nuke ops in particular), as the point of being one of them is typically to consume as many people as possible/blow the ship up.

[Vitatroll]

It'd need a large draw and impressive retention value. I don't know if antags would help or hurt the situation, but I know that it won't solve the problem.

LLJK1's only 'hope' (that I see) is active narration coupled with planned events. Unfortunately it still suffers from being LLJK2's more serious little brother. Just about everything LLJK1 can do, LLJK2 can do better and with less restriction. That's gonna hurt retention.

[atamusvaleo]

There is one facet which stands as this server's largest issue while simultaneously being its largest drawing point: RP.

It affects everything positively and negatively based on the players involved. To be fair, I should say it is a lack of RP that leads to a lot of issues. People still break into places to this day (despite there being no antagonist roles) just for loot and with no actual RP reason. People still self-treat or do other people's jobs for them. [More examples of people not RPing here]. When antags were allowed in the time before the great collapse, there were often slient rampages. People being beaten to death over nothing and the antag claiming "oh, you like my crazy chaplain rp?!" happened fairly often.

Then there's the flipside of that. Those who RP and make an effort to have some sort of dialogue and interaction with other crew only to be faced by an aloof geneticist or scientist or radio silence. It can be disheartening and it's my main reason for no longer playing on Destiny. Well, that and during my usual free time I'm typically presented with server populations of 0-2 people for quite some time now.

Do I think adding antagonists would be a nice change of pace? Yes.

Do I think it will solve the issues Destiny faces? No.

Do I think it will exacerbate server troubles? Yes.

Getting To The Point
I really think the answer lies somewhere in between. Sundance's idea for a dungeon master role is a great solution; however, I'm inclined to think that it would take some time to iron the kinks out and get a decent number of trusted and well liked DMs. I also think a viable solution would be non-murderous antagonist roles and more saboteur roles. The crew has an overall mission and it's up to this single antagonist to prevent it from happening.

Final point. If antags are brought back, keep it to one at a time. The chaos that comes from having all of these people blowing things up and killing folks at once is too much. It's already simple enough for one person to completely cripple the ship in just a few minutes and if they're trying out a clever gimmick, they should really be given the space and time to do so.

[Superlagg]

From my time roleplaying in a first-person shooter, I've learned a few things on what promotes and hinders roleplay.

Some kind of goal or thing you're compelled to do gives purpose to the roleplayers. Conflict sparks things to do, creates goals, and compels roleplayers to roleplay. Troublemakers and/or troublesome events cause conflict.

However, death typically kills roleplay, since whatever plotline or story bits that guy had end with their life. After all, it's kinda hard to roleplay with a dead guy, especially if most of your friends also turned into corpses.

I'd extend that death thing to the escape shuttle, as it has the ability to end or abort any RP going on. Again, if the story's supposed to end there, that's great! It can also be abrupt, boring, and kind of an unsatisfying ending, partly since that ship you're supposed to care about, that smoking wreck or lifeless husk, just disappears forever and is replaced with an identical-yet-different Destiny.

My old FPS roleplaying took place in a city. We RPers would wander around dragonkicking interacting with each other, looking for something to do or some shit to stir up, like Extended, but cruder. Assault and murder were common RP elements, what with it being a first-person shooter. Our weaponry, especially the sw33t kung-fu moves we spawned with, could kill another player within seconds, but, other than a decrease in hitpoints, did no lasting damage.

And yet some of my favorite moments were with my (shitty) character flat on his ass, slowly bleeding out on the pavement after a shoot-out.

While assault and murder were common RP elements, using the "shooter" part of the first-person shooter was preferably down-played; some of us would intentionally use the weakest weapons, shoot to miss, or just mime shooty-fingers at each other and pretend we didn't just yell Bang, then flop down onto the sidewalk and spout profanities even though everyone knows that your hitpoints are full.

Then some nerd in a labcoat would somersault up the street, load all of us whining dorks into an invisible ambulance, use the honor system to let us all run behind him to the hospital, then dive into a bed for him to spout medical terminology he found on Altavista.

Heck, around the time I was an administrator for those RP communities (and before I ran it all right into the ground with my power [and vague furry erp {eugh}]), I would sometimes give people godmode so they could shoot at each other without fear of accidentally killing them and needing to call for a time-out while the dead guy respawns and runs his ass back to play a corpse. We used the honor system (and elitist peer-pressure) to get roleplayers to roleplay right things that the game didn't force them to do, and fairly often it actually sorta worked!

So, what the heck is the point I'm trying to make? Something about inflicting mortal wounds without hurting someone. Hm...

Maybe make death on Destiny only happen through succumbing? Beat them a million points into crit, then let the doctors monkey around putting your guts back in?

Maybe have a fifth intent, where your attacks do no damage but are logged for anyone interested to see?

Maybe a button to turn stuns and unconsciousness on and off, but still have the option to appear stunned or asleep, or at least hear the doctor's medi-babble or the villain's dastardly monologue while you're out like a light?

Maybe just turn everything into a MUCKy MUD because this whole "video" "game" and "mechanics" thing gets in the way of roleplay?

Something something don't call the shuttle unless you really need it and just fix the damn ship you lazy jerks?

Not sure what kind of point I'm trying to make, but I know one thing's for sure: Destiny needs plot drivers, and it could use some stuff to make violent antagging extend beyond a few moments of murder, followed by boring old death.

[Joefesok]

Permacrit sounds like a pretty good solution to the reasons antags fuck everything up on such a slow server. People can stay alive despite rampagers and, so long as new players are joining, at some point you'll probably see people coming back to life. Maybe make cryo healing more accessible and remove RP restrictions (i.e. "you don't have medical knowledge!") regarding them?

[Maegor]

Might as well add an actor job and role play as if it is a movie.

RP derives from conflict, with has actual consequences that you do not need to fake believing you give a care. It would be extremely boring to have a system where your action have no consequence.

Maybe make cryo healing more accessible and remove RP restrictions (i.e. "you don't have medical knowledge!") regarding them?

Make Doctors even more useless